Ep19 Oakland McCulloch - Leadership and Communication Skills of a Military Leader

00:00:01:27 - 00:00:27:18
Suzanne Taylor-King
Good morning. Good morning, everyone. Suzanne Taylor King here for another episode of Unlock Your Way with Stick. And I am honored to have a conversation today with Oakland McCulloch, 23 year Army veteran, now retired and stepping into for the last how many years speaking and coaching here?

00:00:27:19 - 00:00:29:06
Oakland McCulloch
A couple of years now. Yeah.

00:00:29:09 - 00:01:06:06
Suzanne Taylor-King
Yeah. You stood out to me. I can't even remember how we originally got connected, but I heard you talk and I said this. This is somebody I love, military mindset. I love the athlete mindset. And you're really this unique combination of all of that. I'm going to brag on you a little bit this not only your career, your military awards, but also teaching and mentoring other people.

00:01:06:09 - 00:01:07:23
Suzanne Taylor-King
Really honorable.

00:01:07:25 - 00:01:26:29
Oakland McCulloch
Yeah. Well, thank you, Suzanne. You know, I look at it as my responsibility. You know, I tell leaders all the time it is your responsibility to help develop coach, teach, mentor that next generation of leaders because we are going to reap what we sell, I promise. And if we don't do a good job, we deserve what we get.

00:01:27:01 - 00:02:00:12
Suzanne Taylor-King
Yeah, well, I, I think my dad was in the army only for about four years. And but I think the takeaway was really that do unto others attitude. Also the the strict ness that I was raised with, you know from make your bed to don't complain. And I don't know there's something really foundational about those military ways. Could you speak a little bit to that?

00:02:00:14 - 00:02:25:08
Oakland McCulloch
Yeah. So I think, you know, one of the benefits of being in the service, whether you do it for two years, 30 years, 40 years, and I just talked to somebody the other day, had 40, 42 years in the service. Wow. It's just amazing to me, almost double what I did it. You know, one of the benefits is you get some self-discipline and there is a difference between discipline and self-discipline.

00:02:25:10 - 00:02:48:10
Oakland McCulloch
And and you also just learn how to make things happen. It one of the one of my favorite talks I ever listen to, and I got to do it in person. It was an honor to listen to General Hal Moore and one of the things he said was, Life isn't like baseball. Know it's not three strikes and you're out.

00:02:48:11 - 00:03:03:23
Oakland McCulloch
He said, If you try something and it doesn't work, try something else. And if that doesn't work, try something else. And he said, and just keep trying until it works. And I think that's one of the things that we learn in the military, because you can't give up there. You know, that. You got to keep trying.

00:03:03:26 - 00:03:48:12
Suzanne Taylor-King
Yeah, Yeah. I think I think that's what attracted me to stoic philosophy so much was just that grit and resilience and, you know, fall seven rise eight theory. And so many times we see people, especially in the online space, and most of my clients are in the online space. It it's so easy to look at someone else and think they're an overnight success or you know, it didn't take and it's easy for them, you know, and I just think it's not easy for anyone.

00:03:48:14 - 00:03:56:04
Suzanne Taylor-King
But some people make it look easy and that's one of the things you do. You make it easy.

00:03:56:06 - 00:04:21:15
Oakland McCulloch
Yeah, I think, you know, I think a lot of it has to do with your attitude. You know, I think I'm I'm a believer that it's not about me. It's about the people I have the privilege to lead. And I try to always keep that in mind and I try to treat people in the right way. And, you know, somebody told me every day, they said, you know, you're always so calm.

00:04:21:18 - 00:04:42:18
Oakland McCulloch
And I said, on the outside, maybe I could do. But that all comes from, you know, if you want to be a leader, then you have to set the example. And if you're all panicky and you're and you're all upset and yelling and screaming, then the people that you're leading feed off of that. And if you're calm, then they'll feed off of that.

00:04:42:20 - 00:05:04:01
Suzanne Taylor-King
Yeah. Yeah, you do. You have like an energized tranquility about you listening to a couple talks you gave on other podcasts. It's, it's very centered and grounded and comes from a place of wisdom. What's the secret to that?

00:05:04:04 - 00:05:28:22
Oakland McCulloch
So I think one of the things that I emphasize a lot is that you never stop learning. You know, you're professional development, first of all, is on you, you know, organization that you're a part of should have a professional development program. I'm a huge advocate of that. But in the first place, it's all on you. You got to professionally develop and and so I, I think that is part of it.

00:05:28:22 - 00:06:04:07
Oakland McCulloch
I just never stop learning. I read I listen to people, you know, I don't care how long you've been doing whatever it is you're doing, you can always get better. You can always learn something new. And that's the philosophy I've always had. And that was kind of ingrained in me. And with my father growing up, my father had this thing called the 75% rule and he said, Son, if you can't do something better than 75% of the people doing it, then you need to do one of two things figure out how to get better at it, or go do something else, because obviously it doesn't matter to you.

00:06:04:09 - 00:06:10:03
Suzanne Taylor-King
Wow. Wow. Did that apply to grades as well?

00:06:10:06 - 00:06:10:27
Oakland McCulloch
Yeah.

00:06:11:00 - 00:06:17:08
Suzanne Taylor-King
That was 75 was my cut off of what I was allowed.

00:06:17:11 - 00:06:23:02
Oakland McCulloch
Yeah. Yeah, it was. It wasn't a pleasant day if I broke something below a B.

00:06:23:04 - 00:07:01:18
Suzanne Taylor-King
Yeah, I remember going to college to be a dental hygienist. That's where I started. And there was no D you had to get an A, B or C or you got an F and you had to do whatever you were doing over again in order to get an A, B or C. And I remember walking in that first day and they explained the grading system and it didn't faze me at all because that was already the expectation that I grew up with.

00:07:01:21 - 00:07:30:24
Suzanne Taylor-King
But I remember some of the other people thinking, how am I going to do that? How am I like that? Really scared some of the students and I'd love for you to speak a little bit about fear because you faced war and conflicts and all kinds of things in your career, and I'm sure you've faced things in your personal life.

00:07:30:27 - 00:07:37:29
Suzanne Taylor-King
How is that fear really come up for you and how do you move past it?

00:07:38:02 - 00:07:53:08
Oakland McCulloch
Yeah. So anybody who tells you that they don't have a fear of something is lying to you? You know, I think I've probably only known three people that I could truly say seemed like they were fearless and all three of them are dead and.

00:07:53:11 - 00:07:55:02
Suzanne Taylor-King
I don't know if that's a sign or not.

00:07:55:07 - 00:08:18:09
Oakland McCulloch
Yeah, well, I think it is. I, you know, I think fear is a good thing. It's something that keeps us from doing dumb things or from doing things that that we probably shouldn't do. So I don't think fear is a bad thing. The the thing you had to do, you have to get to yourself in yourself is to overcome some fears.

00:08:18:11 - 00:08:48:07
Oakland McCulloch
And I think part of that comes from a purpose if you know what you're really doing and it's worth doing, then you can deal with that fear a little bit better. And I think that that has it. I, I think you can use fear as a tool to encourage yourself to keep pushing yourself to overcome that. I read somewhere one time and I can't remember who said it, but they said the fears you don't face today become your limits tomorrow.

00:08:48:09 - 00:08:54:13
Oakland McCulloch
So if you don't face the fears that you have, then they're going to limit you and whatever it is that you want to do.

00:08:54:16 - 00:09:13:09
Suzanne Taylor-King
I, I love that because I think that's I've used as an indicator that I'm on the right track out of my comfort zone. Right. If it doesn't scare me a little. And positive psychology kind of teaches to reframe it as excitement.

00:09:13:12 - 00:09:28:25
Oakland McCulloch
That's right. Yeah. I'm I'm the same way with stress. I think stress is a good thing. You know, it shows you you're doing something worth doing. Yeah. If you don't have any stress in your life, I question whether or not you're doing very much.

00:09:28:27 - 00:10:01:09
Suzanne Taylor-King
Yeah, yeah. That's that. It goes to that challenge factor. I love to challenge other people, just like I love to challenge myself. Like how, how much can I learn about that? How much better can I do? And obviously you've had that same attitude for a long time. What's the secret to learning more faster? I ask a lot of people this question How do they learn?

00:10:01:13 - 00:10:04:22
Suzanne Taylor-King
How do you absorb information?

00:10:04:24 - 00:10:27:02
Oakland McCulloch
So everybody's a little different. You know, that's one of the thing. First thing they teach you when you go to a teaching class where they're going to teach you how to be an instructor, especially in the military, they say, you know, everybody learns differently. Some people want to read, some people want a lecture, some people want video, you know, or listen, you know, like podcast, whatever.

00:10:27:04 - 00:10:49:13
Oakland McCulloch
I prefer to sit in person and listen to somebody if I can. That's just the way I always learn. But I'm starting to get to the point where I'm using podcasts as well and not even doesn't even have to be. A video podcast is something I can put in my ears and I'm starting to pick up on that a little bit more.

00:10:49:14 - 00:11:11:29
Oakland McCulloch
You know, talk about out of your comfort zone. That was a little bit for me, but but it it is an easy way to do it and a quick way to do it. And it's something you can do driving. You can do it. You know, I fish a lot. I love to fish. I can do it out fishing, Whatever I want to do, I can listen to podcast and I can pick up things that way.

00:11:12:04 - 00:11:40:03
Oakland McCulloch
But like my preferred method is in person listening. And, you know, I take lots of notes on the note taker, even today, you know, like I was last week, I was at the I was one of the I was the closing speaker for the Georgia Association of Chiefs of Police in Columbus, Georgia. And I sat through, I don't know, three or four breakout session, you know, waiting for my turn the last day and closing the cup.

00:11:40:06 - 00:11:46:18
Oakland McCulloch
And I'm sitting there taking notes and somebody said, Aren't you one of the speakers? I said, Yeah, it doesn't mean I can't learn from you. Yeah.

00:11:46:20 - 00:12:17:07
Suzanne Taylor-King
Yeah, yeah. I love that. I often I think podcasts are great because you can, even if it's a topic you already think you know about, you can listen a little faster, like on one and a half speed and pick up nuggets. I can't tell you how many times I've been out walking, listening to a topic and picked up something and had to jotted down in my phone.

00:12:17:10 - 00:12:38:14
Suzanne Taylor-King
Yeah, Really, really helpful. But I'm a visual learner. Okay, so seeing someone demonstrate or do something or even give a talk in person, something about watching the other person really drives.

00:12:38:16 - 00:12:57:03
Oakland McCulloch
Me to I mean, I'm that way too. And, and you know, I, I grew up working on farms and it was always, you know, it wasn't a my family wasn't a farmer, but I grew up working on farms as a kid. And so it was all new to me. And every time the farmer would do something, I said, Show me how to do that.

00:12:57:05 - 00:13:35:15
Oakland McCulloch
And and it was, you know, he'd show me and I'd do it. And then I then I knew it, but I'm that way, too. I want I love the in-person interaction to me, you know, And it goes back to communication, you know, face to face communication, which is a lost art today, unfortunately, with a lot of the young people, it's so important because you can pick up on body language, you can pick up on I can when I when I tell somebody to do something, when I was a leader, I loved look in their eyes, I could tell whether or not they understood what I was asking them to do.

00:13:35:17 - 00:13:46:05
Oakland McCulloch
Yeah, you don't get that over text or email or phone calls. I mean, to me, it's just so the face to face communication is just so important.

00:13:46:07 - 00:13:54:20
Suzanne Taylor-King
Yeah, I agree. I think facial cues I'm notorious for. I can't hide how I feel.

00:13:54:21 - 00:13:58:08
Oakland McCulloch
Yeah, my wife tells me I can't either.

00:13:58:10 - 00:14:33:06
Suzanne Taylor-King
And I think one of the cool part about being with someone in person is the full body language. How do they stand? How do they carry themselves and how do they interact with other people? I know my dad used to talk about that a lot within the military. You know, how do you interact with others is usually a good key to not only your leadership.

00:14:33:09 - 00:14:34:14
Suzanne Taylor-King
Do you agree with that?

00:14:34:14 - 00:14:57:08
Oakland McCulloch
I do, absolutely. I think, you know, I, I and I and I learned this as a lieutenant. I was I was a general's aide. And during the first Gulf War, I was a one star generals aide. And General Powell, who is still the most impressive man I've ever met in person, he was coming to address all the generals.

00:14:57:08 - 00:15:14:18
Oakland McCulloch
So we had a big circus tent. And it was a circus tent, just a huge tent out in the middle of nowhere in the desert. And all of these generals are out there and all of us aides, you know, here I was a lieutenant and there were some captains and some majors. And we we went there with our generals to get them there.

00:15:14:23 - 00:15:43:04
Oakland McCulloch
And we were all standing in the back. We didn't have a seat. We were all sitting in the back of the tent. And all these generals, one, two, three star generals are all talking, all really noisy. General Powell walks in, it goes deathly silent, silent, while everybody knew who was in charge and it wasn't them. And but the most impressive thing to me was this At the end, all of us aides ran out and got our the vehicles ready for the generals.

00:15:43:05 - 00:16:02:22
Oakland McCulloch
As they came out of the tent, General Powell walked out. He was the first general to walk out. And he didn't his vehicle was right there. He didn't walk to his vehicle and get in and leave. He walked over to a vehicle right next to him that had a corporal and a sergeant standing there. And he talked to them for about 15 minutes.

00:16:02:24 - 00:16:12:15
Oakland McCulloch
Wow. If I remember that. And that was 33 years ago. You can imagine that special sign. That sergeant will never forget that the rest of their lives didn't have to do that.

00:16:12:17 - 00:16:12:21
Suzanne Taylor-King
Right.

00:16:12:26 - 00:16:42:00
Oakland McCulloch
That's that's the show of a good leader. Is that they can talk to anybody and want to talk to everybody. And so that just impressed me. And and I tried to keep that all through my career. I don't care who you are. I want to talk to you and learn from you and get your opinion on stuff. As people buy my book, I always tell them and they tell me, you know, send me dinner or whatever and say, I bought your book.

00:16:42:02 - 00:16:47:27
Oakland McCulloch
I say, I want your feedback. Send me feedback after you read it.

00:16:48:00 - 00:17:19:25
Suzanne Taylor-King
I love that. I, I think I always say that focus is the really hot leadership skill right now. How can you be more present, more attentive, You know, not have your phone in your hands all the time. But I would argue that it's a really close second with how you talk to people. Are you able to have conversations?

00:17:19:25 - 00:17:29:05
Suzanne Taylor-King
Are you able to connect with people from a general all the way down to somebody who's homeless?

00:17:29:07 - 00:17:30:01
Oakland McCulloch
That's right.

00:17:30:03 - 00:17:37:03
Suzanne Taylor-King
And how you treat people? I think needs to be a universal thing.

00:17:37:06 - 00:17:59:04
Oakland McCulloch
I agree. I agree. You know, one of the one of the things and I spent two years running the day to day operation of a food bank after I retired from the Army. And one of the things that I was adamant about, we were not doing a good job of serving the homeless community in the areas around where our food bank was.

00:17:59:04 - 00:18:31:28
Oakland McCulloch
And so I started a program where once a month we went out where they were, you know, in in a community where there were homeless and they could come very easily and gather where we were going to hand out the food. And I would spend I didn't have to be there, but I did. I always made an effort to go there and to talk to them and and just listen to one which is another lost communication skill, listening, actually actually listening to people.

00:18:32:01 - 00:18:40:18
Oakland McCulloch
But I think it's so important that you have that ability to talk to whoever and to listen very well.

00:18:40:20 - 00:18:45:19
Suzanne Taylor-King
Yeah, yeah. Truly a lost a lost art.

00:18:45:21 - 00:18:46:06
Oakland McCulloch
It is.

00:18:46:10 - 00:18:47:07
Suzanne Taylor-King
A listen.

00:18:47:10 - 00:19:00:12
Oakland McCulloch
And and you know and that's one of the things I really emphasized in my talk is the communication skills in all forms. But certainly community listening and being able to talk to people.

00:19:00:15 - 00:19:18:12
Suzanne Taylor-King
Yeah, Yeah. Well, let's let's talk a little bit about your book and not only who it's for, but where where all of that came from about leadership, legacy. Where did all of that information come from?

00:19:18:15 - 00:19:48:07
Oakland McCulloch
So, you know, and I named it that for a reason, because I believe that it it is leaders do need to leave a legacy. And I think legacy is a two part thing. It's very small. What you actually did in your organization. It does matter because results do matter in the real world. But here's the problem. If you tie your legacy to what you did in your organization, then when the new boss comes in, the new leader takes over.

00:19:48:10 - 00:20:13:15
Oakland McCulloch
When you leave and they change everything, then there goes your legacy. So it's not very long. In my opinion. The majority of your legacy is that next generation of leaders that you are helping to create who are going to be around for the next ten, 15, 20 years. And then if you do it correctly, then they understand that it's their responsibility to create the next generation.

00:20:13:15 - 00:20:46:05
Oakland McCulloch
So you got that generation you influenced, plus the ones they're going to do and the ones they're going to do. So your legacy could last the next 200 years if you do it right. So when I I've been given this leadership presentation for, I don't know, 30 years, obviously updated, it changes a little bit every once in a while, but I've given it for a long time and I always knew I wanted to write this book and it's funny because I was always thinking, Well, I'm going to write the book.

00:20:46:05 - 00:21:09:08
Oakland McCulloch
And then my wife and I and her mother and two other people that live in our condo, we went to a motivational speaking slash. How do we revitalize the Catholic Church event at our church? And it was a three hour long event this guy was in. He didn't talk for all 3 hours, obviously, but he's a great speaker.

00:21:09:15 - 00:21:31:16
Oakland McCulloch
And he spoke for 45 minutes. We take a 15 minute break and that did it like that. And every time he took a break, I went up and talked to him because he's doing what I wanted to do, get out and speak. And at the very end, we said our goodbyes and he started to walk away. And he turned around and looked at me and he said, okay, have you written a book?

00:21:31:18 - 00:21:54:09
Oakland McCulloch
And I said, Well, I'm thinking about it. And he said, Stop thinking about it and write it. So that night I wrote out the table of contents and I started the next day. That was the 16th of February, and I published at 16th of February 2020, and I published it on the 12th of February 2021. So just under a year to write the book.

00:21:54:11 - 00:22:15:16
Oakland McCulloch
And I thought I was writing it for young men and women. That's what I that was my initial audience that I thought would really benefit from it. And I think they have. And if you read the reviews of the book, I think I hit that mark. But then I had a two star Marine Corps general who I connected with on LinkedIn and had a couple conversations, and he decided to buy my book and read it.

00:22:15:18 - 00:22:36:00
Oakland McCulloch
And he sent me a message one day and he said, okay, you know, I didn't learn a whole lot of new things. I learned a few new techniques, he said. But what I really took out of your book was this Should I be reading along? And I'd read about something that you talk about, and I'd say to myself, You know, I used to do that really well, and I don't do that so well anymore.

00:22:36:02 - 00:22:52:09
Oakland McCulloch
Maybe I should dedicate some time to get back to doing that. And I think that's so important because again, no matter how long you've been doing this, we all need a nudge every once in a while to kind of bring us back and reality that maybe we we forgot something that helped make us successful.

00:22:52:11 - 00:23:34:00
Suzanne Taylor-King
Yeah. Yeah. I think that's really the secret to success. You know, all the books, all the classics, you know, talk about high performance habits or the habits of the most successful. And I, I really think it's about remembering what you already know. And that's repetition. That's, you know, putting systems in place that if, if I'm doing this, then this happens and then just revisiting it every single day or at least once a week to, you know, kind of form that direction of where you go.

00:23:34:03 - 00:23:45:22
Oakland McCulloch
Well, you know, I'm a huge believer in reflection because I don't believe you learn from experience, from things that happen. You learn from the reflection of things that happen.

00:23:45:25 - 00:23:46:05
Suzanne Taylor-King
yeah.

00:23:46:09 - 00:23:47:19
Oakland McCulloch
That is how you learn.

00:23:47:21 - 00:23:47:29
Suzanne Taylor-King
Yeah.

00:23:48:02 - 00:24:05:10
Oakland McCulloch
So I, I do two types of reflection after each major event. So like, when I do a talk, I'll think about how I did it and could I do it better Or, you know, when I was in the army, when we did a training that we bring everybody together, okay, this is what we're supposed to do. This is what we did.

00:24:05:10 - 00:24:30:10
Oakland McCulloch
How do we get better at it? And I don't care. Even if you're successful at something, you can still get better at it. But then I also had started a few years ago. I started a daily reflection. And so every night before I go to bed because I'm like you, I'm I believe in routines inside a routine. I start my day every day, the same way I get up, I get my cup of coffee, I listen to the daily Mass.

00:24:30:12 - 00:24:35:04
Oakland McCulloch
I read a couple of chapters in the Bible and I do my daily prayers.

00:24:35:06 - 00:24:41:24
Suzanne Taylor-King
Yeah, it's kind of like Groundhog Day at my house, so, you know. you're fine for a second.

00:24:41:27 - 00:24:54:27
Oakland McCulloch
Yeah. And then. And then I. I do my journal because I keep a daily journal and then I reflect on what I did that day. What did I do? How could I do it better so that tomorrow I am a little bit better than I was today?

00:24:54:29 - 00:25:39:23
Suzanne Taylor-King
Yeah, Yeah, that 1% better really makes a big needle mover in the long run. I love it. I love the idea of every every day looks very similar, you know? And that's not boring to me. I'm sure it's not to you. It's. There's something and I forget who said it, but there's something magical when your habits and your routines are actually the life that you want to live, you know that it actually becomes who you are rather than something you're striving to.

00:25:39:26 - 00:26:03:13
Suzanne Taylor-King
And it looks like we lost Oakland there for a sec. And let's see if he comes back. You know, when we're talking about morning routines, habits of high performers, you know, it does it has to be first thing in the morning that routine. It can easily be, you know, something you do later in the day. It has to work for you.

00:26:03:15 - 00:26:45:22
Suzanne Taylor-King
That's I'm a firm believer in that routine has to work for you. And whether it's a combination of exercise, reflection, meditation, journaling, or some sort of reading, personal development, learning, all of those things go into my power hours that I spend. All right, You're back there. He's back. I talked a little bit while you were gone just to fill our space since we're alive about that morning routine and, you know, whatever it looks like for you, it doesn't have to be first thing in the morning.

00:26:45:28 - 00:27:19:19
Suzanne Taylor-King
But it's a combination of personal growth, a little bit exercise, a little bit of movement. Mine always includes a cup of coffee. And, you know, that reflection piece is so key. So key, whether you're reflecting on learning or a mistake, that's it's truly how to take your mistakes and turn them into lessons and things that you do different.

00:27:19:22 - 00:27:37:27
Oakland McCulloch
That's that's the only way you're going to learn from a mistake is to reflect on it. You know, again, what what did I want to do? What happened and how do I make up that difference? Yeah, because that if you don't reflect on it, then it was just you don't learn from it. You don't figure out how to get better at it.

00:27:38:00 - 00:27:45:21
Suzanne Taylor-King
Right. And I think. Do you think the same goes for negative experience is or I think.

00:27:45:23 - 00:28:11:16
Oakland McCulloch
You know, I had a friend who was a head football coach and now he's the president of the university. But he used to say you need to treat success the same way you treat failure. Or if you don't do something well, then you should reflect on it and figure out how to get better. And if you do something well, figure out how to get better at it, because you can always do something better than you did it, even if even if you think it was successful.

00:28:11:19 - 00:28:29:15
Suzanne Taylor-King
I love that that. Well, thank you so much for all these insights. I absolutely love your book. Huge fan of yours. How can my listeners get in touch with you and learn more about.

00:28:29:17 - 00:28:55:00
Oakland McCulloch
yeah. So. So I have a website LTC McCullough at our dot com and and I'm also so you can go on there and on there it has my email address, my cell phone number, all the social media and you know we connected on LinkedIn. That's how I do most of my social media is on LinkedIn. And if you want to send me a message, always happy to talk to people.

00:28:55:03 - 00:29:05:29
Oakland McCulloch
I always try to make time for somebody who wants to connect with me on a Zoom meeting or over a phone call. And I would love to talk to you if you're if you are interested.

00:29:06:01 - 00:29:18:27
Suzanne Taylor-King
I love it. Thank you so much for letting me be your fan. I appreciate you and thank you for joining me on Unlock Your Way. And it was a pleasure to hear a little bit about your way today.

00:29:18:29 - 00:29:23:08
Oakland McCulloch
Yeah, Well, thank you very much for having me on the show, Suzanne. I've been looking forward to it.

00:29:23:11 - 00:29:24:01
Suzanne Taylor-King
You're welcome.