Ep67 Tom Burns - Surgeon by Training, Investor by Choice: Redefining Success Beyond Your Profession

Tom Burns  0:00  
We're trained through a bunch of years to get things correct. You know, being right and correct is a good thing, but you know, learn to embrace the mistakes that you are inevitably going to make. You know that's that is the path to your success is the mistakes that you're going to make. Buy your mistakes and your lessons at a discount. Start slow, move slow, move fast. In anything else to grow your business, but when you're giving somebody money, move slow, embrace your mistakes. It's where you're going to get your most wisdom.

Suzanne Taylor-King  0:30  
Hey, hey, welcome to a podcast where dreams meet determination and success is just around the corner. I'm your host, Suzanne Taylor King, and I'm here to help you unlock the full potential of your business and your life. Welcome to unlock your way with SDK, let's unlock your path to success together. Good morning. Good morning, everyone. Suzanne Taylor king here for another Friday Live episode of unlock your way with STK, and I'm super excited for today's conversation with Dr Tom Burns, the rich doctor. He is a retired orthopedic surgeon, real estate investor and author, speaker trainer, all the good things. And I'm really excited for you to be here today.

Tom Burns  1:25  
Tom Suzanne, I'm excited to be here. I I got an inkling a day or two ago this was going to be live. So I think it's awesome. And you were just explaining why you do this. So this is a lot of fun. Appreciate it. Glad to be here. You're

Suzanne Taylor-King  1:37  
so welcome. I have to know, and I always ask something similar, when we first start our conversation, you went from orthopedic surgeon to real estate investor, and what? What had to shift with your own identity in order to do that?

Tom Burns  2:00  
So it was and mine happened kind of early. Mine happened a long, long time ago, before it was cool. I was, heck, I mean, I'm not lying. I was, I was in training. I didn't know anything. All I knew was playing sports, and nobody was going to pay me for it. So I went into sports medicine and orthopedics. You know, it seemed like a pretty good, pretty good path, and I did well in school. So I'm going through that whole path. I've already done College, med school, and I'm in my orthopedic training, and Suzanne, that's where, you know, the way we, the way they train us, is like an apprenticeship deal, right? Plumbers, blacksmiths, things like that. You work with somebody that's that knows how to do it. So we, I had these doctors teaching us. These doctors are 2030, years older than me, and they didn't look very happy so, and, you know, my wife had literally made a he, she and I had made a verbal pact that no matter what life throws at us, we're going to find a way to have fun. And we didn't think these guys were having fun. Eventually decided I didn't necessarily want their money if I had to have their life because they were, you know, two or three times divorced. They were working hard, they were complaining. They made some money, but they weren't happy, guys. So I actually got the bug in my training. So that would be my, you know, mid, mid 20s, probably. So, you know, I didn't have two nickels to rub together, so all I could do is just kind of figure out what I wanted to do. I sort of landed on investing, primarily real estate investing, and so I grew the two at the same time. So I guess the mindset shift was back when I was training, I just wanted a little money coming in that wasn't tied to being a doctor, even though I wasn't making any money as a doctor at the time. And they grew to glitter.

Suzanne Taylor-King  3:37  
Yeah, that's that's really fascinating, because I have seen so many times professionals you know, who spend so long training for a career. You know, from medicine, dentistry, chiropractic physicians, Assistant nurses, dental hygienists, like I was for 20 years. You know, it's a it's a long road to be in a job that you're not completely like. The work might be fulfilling, but if you're not happy doing it, it just seems like such a well and with we don't even have to get into all the things that make it difficult, like insurance and, you know, regulations and all the things. But I think you saw something so early that most people don't, and is that why you wrote the book? I

Tom Burns  4:43  
know, I tell you that. I guess the first I'll tell you I wrote the book, which is kind of a goofy story, but I, you know, I just, yeah, I saw a little something, and didn't much have to do with medicine. It was just like, hey, these guys, you know, this orthopedic stuff is fun, but those. Eyes don't look happy. So let's add something, and what I ended up with was a practice I worked a little harder on the beginning. As I say, I burned the candle at both ends early on, but, you know, I was able to build a practice that I really enjoyed. I was able to kind of eliminate those annoying things that irritate a lot of the doctors of today. I'm not sure I could do that today, the way medicine is, but so I ended up leaving medicine because I just ran out of time. I loved what I did. I had a perfect setup. Nowadays, there are a lot of folks in the in the medical world that you know, to use the cliche word, they've just got such massive burnout, that they're just unhappy. So kind of two different motivations, but yeah, and so I just feel like I got lucky. I mean, you know, maybe just a little I always call it touched by an angel, that I just realized I need to do something back then, because I wasn't smart, I didn't have wisdom. I was just lucky that I thought I'd look for something else.

Suzanne Taylor-King  6:01  
Well, I'll argue with you there, because I think it's, it's insightful, and I think, you know, luck, you know, maybe, but I think you trusted yourself with that gut instinct that I need to pursue something else here as well.

Tom Burns  6:18  
I will tell you throughout the years. Once I kind of made that choice, I would often have a choice of making my medical practice busier or investing in something that investing time, money and effort into something that might pay me for the rest of my life. And I usually chose the the the more deferred gratification way, and it worked out. So

Suzanne Taylor-King  6:39  
yeah, was there a grief period for you in, in letting go of that, you know, traditional doctor role?

Tom Burns  6:50  
I didn't think there would be, but there was a little bit, you know, I mean, I would walk in the room and introduce myself as Tom, I never, you know, never used the doctor moniker, that sort of thing. And half the time, you know, at parties, it would take people a while to realize I was a doctor. Then they cornered me and asked me

Suzanne Taylor-King  7:08  
orthopedic questions. But yeah, like I did when we got on

Tom Burns  7:11  
goal with the territory, right, yeah. But so I, you know, I, I actually, I was what I did my last four years for free. I barely or did not get paid, but I had a great, you know, I had a great practice. And I, you know, I worked two to five mornings a week, which is why I made just enough money to cover overhead. But I really enjoyed what I did. And so I forgot where I was going with that. But, oh yeah, I then a guy tells me, he goes, Well, you're not making any money. Goes, you're an idiot. I said, Well, you know, I like what I do. I'm still, you know, making my money in the real estate world, and I spent six months agonizing over, you know, should I, you know, should I give this up or not, because I was getting busier and busier, you know, people were calling asking me to do other things outside of medicine. I sort of had three jobs. I was running a real estate company. I was running a medical deal, and then, you know, kind of this rich Doctor thing started coming up, and so I had to make a decision, something had to give. So that's why I got out of it. And do we miss it? Yeah, I still kind of miss it a little bit. You know, it's not that many people in the world are allowed to, you know, cut into other people to fix, fix things that are broken. So I miss it a little

Suzanne Taylor-King  8:33  
bit, yeah, I, I, I think that most doctors do not feel that way about introducing themselves by their first name, that it kind of becomes, you know, an ego thing for people in certain positions. And what's really intriguing about you this idea of having a rich life goes so far beyond money, and I love what you said about working mornings like everything about you lines up with this idea that there's more important things, aside from prestige money, and let's talk about that a little bit, because I think that vision evolved for you as you were becoming financially free as well. So I know a lot of people say to me that in order to be time wealthy and and abundant, and you know, the finances need to be kind of fixed and made sure that that's, you know, rolling in, so that you can. And relax into uh. But I also know other people with very little money who are very just living below you know their means and very, very happy. So where did that come from? For you?

Tom Burns  10:20  
Man, there's a lot to unpack. You just went in. Yes, I'll start with, you know, I'll kind of give it my experience, and start with the fact that I'm absolutely not perfect. I've screwed a bunch of this stuff up. But, you know, and I hinted at it before, you know, I told my wife, you know, my wife and I, we, it was a real thing. We're gonna have fun. We're on this rock for a short period of time. So let's, let's enjoy life, right? Yeah, so, and that, you know, that doesn't mean forgetting about paying the bills and stuff like that. Part of that is money. And, you know, I always talk about a number of talk about these seven pillars of a rich life, and, you know, money's one of them, right? And, but it's not the most important thing in the world, but Zig Ziglar says it's not the most important thing in the world, but it's right up there with oxygen, right? So, we do need, we need money. Money is an important tool. We need it to survive, to put a roof over our heads. But, you know, everybody knows the story of the super rich guy that's gotten, you know, no friends and kids that won't talk to him. And, you know, and then you've got other people that are, they're free, so to speak. They're nomads, but their finances are a mess, and they're not really as happy as they as they say so. But you Yes, you really touched on it, you know, happiness and and and freedom. I hope you can't hear that dog back there.

Speaker 1  11:47  
Okay, it's real life. We're live. It happens. It

Tom Burns  11:51  
is my nut case dog. Of course, we'd be live so, but you do touch on it, there's a lot of pillars, you know, we've got, we've got our finances. We've got, we've got what's in our head, you know, our emotional and our intellect. You know, we've got our spiritual, our social wealth. How healthy we are. You and I talked about your knee a minute ago, experiences and time. So all those things really come together. So I, I I never wanted to be the wealthiest guy in the world. I didn't have goals like that. And folks that I kind of help mentor and coach, you know, sometimes they'll say, I want to be worth $10 million and the first question I ask them is, why? You know, what is that you what will that piece of paper do for you? And you know, you peel the layers and eventually get down to what what really drives people, and what drives you is different than what drives me. You know, I wanted, wanted to enjoy life. I wanted to grow my kids up into a into a world they understood and they were prepared for it. I wanted to travel the world and see the world so different motivations.

Suzanne Taylor-King  12:55  
Yeah, I remember, I, I remember doing an activity, I think it was developed by Tony Robbins called seven layers deep, and really getting to the heart of, you know, if somebody says, I want to make a million dollars a year, or I want to make $10 million a year, well, why? Well, why. And every time they answer, going another Well, why do you want that, and why do you want that, and why do you want that? And by the time you go 789, 10, layers deep into that, you really get to that core reason, because I want to travel the world with my family. Why do you want to do that? Because I want to have a real relationship with my children or my spouse or my partner. I want, I want to have fun, and I think that is absolutely incredible as a couple, to know that about each other and share that vision for your life, even if you're working two separate careers. To come together with that common why?

Tom Burns  14:05  
Yeah, and, you know, I used to feel guilty that my that my goal wasn't world peace and to feed everybody in the world. And I finally actually talked to somebody about and she was like, It's okay. You're, you know, you're allowed to have what, what you know, what motivates you? And you know, we all, we all still serve in one way or another. So, you know? And so it'd be be much nicer to be sort of the I used to, I used to laugh say, I want to be the wealthiest person nobody

Speaker 1  14:34  
knows, you know, just, I like that. Yeah,

Tom Burns  14:37  
I want to have enough that I can, you know, that we can take off and go take a nice trip somewhere. So, but, yeah, wealth is different. I mean, there are a lot of people that say, Hey, I, you know, I replaced, I'm I replaced my expenses with passive income. And you know, their expenses are like, 1000 bucks a month because they live in a mud hut, but they're happy. And there's nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with that. Wrong. Yeah, I. Mean,

Suzanne Taylor-King  15:00  
I have always known that should life fall apart? I mean, like completely fall apart for me, that there is a place on the north shore of Hawaii, a small little hut that I could move into, and I would work on my surfing and my tan, and I wouldn't need much more than that to be a happy, contented person. And I you mentioned what you were doing today after this call, yeah, and I think if you could have seen that vision for your life when you were in your 20s, in your 30s, would you believe what you're doing now?

Tom Burns  15:51  
Be honest, yeah. I mean, that's kind of cocky, but I just figured, oh, I like it. I planned on living a long time. I planned on having fun. And actually, you know, that activity, that tennis that I'm about to play, I took off for 35 years. So it's sort of a, it's a, it's a new, you know, resurgence into into doing something I really love. But, yeah, I can get, to be honest with you, I don't know if it's optimistic or or delusional, but I just always assumed I'd live for a really long time and be healthy and be enjoying life this time.

Suzanne Taylor-King  16:23  
Nice, nice. I like that. And I think it helps not being attached to the age number or, you know, time on this planet type of thing, to just be happy and contented. All right, let me I'm gonna go the real estate passive income questions, because I think most high achievers are a little nervous about making that first investment move. What advice would you give sure, you

Tom Burns  17:05  
know, ultimately, is, you know, get in the game, do something now back into that. Because it's scary. Absolutely it's scary. You know, back, I can go back, Geez, 35 or more years now, wow, I'm really dating myself anyway, back a long time, and you know, the first thing I did was to buy something on my own. There weren't, there weren't a lot of syndications, things like that. You know, there weren't things you could invest in where somebody else did all the work, tried to go buy something on my own. Wasn't a ton of money, particularly for an orthopedic surgeon. I was early in my career. But what a ton of money, but I was pretty scared, but I'll tell you, you know, once, once you start doing something that's where you really learn everything I suggest to people, you know, figure out what you and I talked about before. Why do you want to do this? You know, it's because you hate your job, or if something's either pulling you forward to something that you really want, or you're trying to run away from something that you really dislike. Those are the two motivations we all have in life anyway, right, right? Avoid pain, seek pleasure. So figure out why you're going to do it, and ask the seven questions you were talking about. Get down to you know, why you really you know, I want to prove to my father in law that I'm not worthless. You know, that's it's stuff like that. Because when you start doing things like this, it's, it's life, it's normal, things are going to go well and things are going to go poorly. And I can tell you, Suzanne and I have had a whole lot of stuff go well, we've had even more stuff go poorly. That's, you know, that's called wisdom and experience. And it hurts to get wisdom and experience, but it does.

Suzanne Taylor-King  18:40  
It does, and I love that you added that in because in business, I fully believe that it's those failures that I've had, the bankrupt business, the business that didn't go well or or the mistakes that I made that actually fueled the success of today, because when you are able to reflect on those past mess ups, you actually become smarter, grittier, more resilient and able to make better decisions. So I love that you said that. And what was your biggest mess up in I mean, you have some impressive numbers in real estate transactions. What's the biggest up you ever had?

Tom Burns  19:34  
Oh my gosh, I've got plenty. I sometimes the question is, which one to choose from. Okay, I like that, you know, primarily I will say it is, it is the people that I dealt with, you know, I came from. I came from Texas, where you make a handshake and, you know, you're truly and anywhere it should be your handshake, and you know, is your word OR. Your bond, etc, etc. I found out naively that there are people that don't ascribe to that philosophy, and what they really want is your money as easily as they can get it. And so, yeah, that's a nice way of saying, you know, I've run across some really bad people, and so it's really helps me be mercilessly diligent now. And anybody I work with always joke that if my wife wants to do a deal with me now, she's gonna have to go through a background check and a D and a full, full Diligence Questionnaire. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, and those, you know, those are the people you think, man, do I want this person investing with me. But you know, once they give you the once you do it one time, and you turn out to be an honest sponsor, so to speak, or person to invest with, then, you know, life got smoother along beyond that. So it was really the it was those kind of choices, and they were painful. Many are still painful right now. They these are multi year consequences and multi, seven, multi, seven figure losses. So, so be wary. You know, diligence is not just a word. Learn how to do it. That's why I teach people how to do it. And you know, read your contracts, read your leases, things like that. So, yeah, what I said there cost me almost eight figures. Wow, in cash losses. So anyway,

Suzanne Taylor-King  21:29  
yeah, I What? Well, I I understand that feeling. So, so well. My my mentor, Mary, said something to me, and she's just, she's 80 years old, and she is just a brilliant coaching mind, business mind, and she said she spends so much more time as her coaching practice grew. She didn't start until she was 60, but more time on the front end, getting to know the person, and she said, almost to the point where she's vetting them to work with her. And I want to encourage any of our listeners, if you take anything away from this conversation, and I do say this all the time, that the longer you take to know somebody you know, you have coffee, you have a lunch, you have another meeting, you have another meeting before you ever, ever decide to work with that person, exchange money, collaborate, partner up. And if you if you just get to the point where you're a little more discerning, like you said, and whether it's background check or meeting other people, they know, I think that's my biggest takeaway from all these years in business and having mentors like her confirm that for me, spend more time with people before you get in bed with them, so to speak,

Tom Burns  23:13  
yep, and get some third party corroboration. I can't emphasize that because there are some really intelligent, brilliant people out there that want to take shortcuts and they can make things look like they're all on the up and up. So

Suzanne Taylor-King  23:30  
yeah, I love that. Let's talk a little bit about the idea of your rich life mastermind, because something resonated with me about freedom and this sense of community, hanging out with people who are doing it also who have the same morals, values, Outlook, goals. And there's something magical about that, and I want to hear your take on that.

Tom Burns  24:02  
Yeah, we, you know, the the mastermind came about unintentionally, you know, like a book. Did you know my friend? Most you know most people. Most people know Robert Kiyosaki, right? He wrote Rich Dad, Poor Dad. So Robert, now we've been friends for a long time, and we're having lunch one day, and I asked him what his next book was going to be. Told me, he looks at me and he goes, You should write a book. I said, No, heck no, I don't want to write a book anyway. You know, he convinced me. I thought about so I wrote this book to give hope and guidance to people that wanted to kind of control their lives, right? So I did that. And this, this has a point. So I wrote the book, put it out, didn't market it. You know, I'm the world's worst marketer. I literally uploaded it. I turned down a publisher. I uploaded it to Amazon, and I went to Turkey, never did a podcast, saying, Hey, I have a book coming out. Can you look at I'm the worst. So anyway, but people started calling. So people wanted to, they wanted to talk to me, and there were so many that we ended up forming. Mastermind and so, and I'd never done that before, and I was telling Suzanne that, you know, I didn't know all this online stuff and running masterminds and coaching and all that stuff. I just was always a guy on the phone helping people answer their questions. So I'm still learning, but it's a, it's become a place for, you know, kind of two groups of people. There's, you know, there's a lot of folks that will call me and say, how you know? How do I get started? I don't like where I am and I want to be in a different place. So I certainly help those folks. Then there's a group of people that have either done it or done it to some degree, and and we mastermind a bit. You know? How did you know? How did you get your debt for this deal? How did you get out of this issue? And interest rates went up. Are your rates floating? Are you, you know? What are you doing here? So we talk a lot about, you know, real estate and some business sales and things like that. So it's kind of a two prong thing. We've got different levels of people, but it's just there to to give folks a community where somebody, if they got a problem, they can ask a question, and everybody jumps in has got their answers. Because I'm, you know, I'm, you know, I don't know everything for sure, and I'm the last person that's going to have all the answers. But the power of the group is pretty phenomenal when everybody really cares about everybody else's success, yeah,

Suzanne Taylor-King  26:14  
well, that comes from the top down, you know, I, I, I'm a firm believer in that any group, mastermind group, you know, community, is only as good as the leader is willing to allow other people to shine, to share their expertise, to give back to the group as a whole. It makes the group stronger, more valuable, and every group that I've ever been in that's functioned like that has been valuable to me, but I've also felt valued as a member, and it's definitely one of the things that drives me so glad we have that in common. Awesome, nice. All right, so rapid fire questions now that have come up from this conversation, besides your own book, one book that has really affected you.

Tom Burns  27:12  
Hi, sure. Obviously, you know Robert's book, for sure, the two books, Rich Dad, Poor Dad and Cash Flow Quadrant. It's a great one two punch. They're 2530 years old, but, you know, the concepts are the same. Or you could read my book, it's got both of those rolled together. But currently, and I talked about this yesterday on interviews that, you know, I'm a, I'm a Ben Hardy, Dan Sullivan collaboration fan. They've got a couple of good, really good books, but my favorite one is a one on perspective. It's called the gap in the gain, yeah. And, I mean, a lot of life can be answered if you look at it with the correct perspective or a different perspective, because your perspective is not always the quote correct one. You just, there are just different ones. And so, you know it, it'll, you know, it would help those you know, you were talking about doctors being unhappy and stuff like that. You know that it's called the gap in the game. So gain thinking would be, look where I've come. You know, I learned all this stuff. I've got a great skill, you know. And the gap would be, but I'm, you know, I'm not free. I'm not master my time. You know, you you gotta, you gotta use some perspective in your goals and realize that you're making you're making steps towards your goals every day. You may not hit your goals. When Bruce Lee says goals are just targets that are never meant to hit, right? So we have a goal of 10, and if you only get to six, you can think about that two ways. One is gap thinking, which is crap. I didn't make it to 10, or it can be game thinking was, well, I went from zero to six. I'm proud of myself. Let me reset my goals and see if I can do it next time. So yeah, that's why I like that book. I

Suzanne Taylor-King  28:49  
love that book too, and I I'm a huge fan of Dr Ben Hardy, and his 10x is easier than 2x book changed so much for me in my calendar, my thinking, my focus, it just transformed the way I was thinking about my business and how I was going to get to these goals, and it was really by doing a heck of a lot less, and doing the things that I was working on that were going to get me to my goal, doing them better and more efficiently. And I wrote to him and told him what a difference it made in my business. And he actually wrote back to me, which Wow, absolutely incredible when that happens. So awesome. All right, last question, one piece of advice that you think every entrepreneur, especially Dr. Preneur needs to know,

Tom Burns  30:03  
who um, you know, I this was a hard one because, and it probably is more more directed at professionals, doctors, engineers, lawyers, architect, you know, and I don't mean leave everybody else out, but this is what came to my mind. Is that, you know, we are, we're trained, through a bunch of years to get things correct. You know, you got to get the answers right on tests. You got to cut in the right place, you got to fix the right problem. And I would tell folks that that's good. You know, being right and correct is a good thing, but, you know, learn to embrace the mistakes that you are inevitably going to make, yeah, as Ryan Holiday says, you know that's that is the path to your success. Is the mistakes that you're going to make. It's the obstacle. Is the way is the name of the book. But you know you're going to make mistakes and embrace them, learn from them. And if you're going to make those mistakes, try to make them with as little investment as possible. Meaning, you know, if you're if your mistakes going to be financial, and you're investing with somebody new, and you haven't listened to Suzanne and I and the background checks and really gotten to know them, well, don't invest with them until you do that. But if you do test them out with a small amount of money, because the lesson, the lesson you get, whatever it's going to be, is going to be the same size, whether you put in a little bit of money and a lot of money, lot of pit buy your buy your mistakes and your lessons at a discount. Start slow, move slow, move fast and anything else to grow your business, but when you're giving somebody money, move slow. So embrace your mistakes. It's where you're going to get your your most wisdom.

Suzanne Taylor-King  31:41  
Love it. Thank you so much. Tom, how can, how can our listeners get in touch with you and find out more about you?

Tom Burns  31:50  
Oh, you bet. So the website is pretty easy. It's rich doctor.com and I've got some I've got a lot of free resources on there. I've got a newsletter, everything. And I'm on social media. I'm on all the social medias, but if you want to contact me, it's Hello at rich doctor.com that email will come to me and be happy to happy to talk to you.

Suzanne Taylor-King  32:11  
I love it and and everyone he does answer his emails. And I love your presence on social media and who you are for other professionals. So thank you so much for having this conversation with me today, and I hope everyone takes some nuggets away about living their rich life. Bye. Guys. Have a great day everyone. Thank you for tuning in to another empowering episode of unlock your way. I hope you found today's discussion inspiring and you're ready to take your business and personal growth to that next level. If you're feeling as fired up as I am and eager to unlock that full potential, I'm here to help you on your journey and provide that personalized guidance tailored to your unique goals and challenges. Simply book a one on one coaching call with me, and we'll dive deep into your business aspirations and see how we could co create a roadmap for your success, and whether you're striving to scale an enterprise or just getting started, I'm here to support you every step of the way. To schedule your coaching call, simply visit the website at unlock your way with stk.com click on the book a call button, and we'll turn your dreams into that reality. Subscribe and review on your favorite podcast platform and on YouTube, plus, you can join over 800 entrepreneurs in the IDEA Lab Facebook group. Let's make success as an entrepreneur happen together until next time I'm SDK. Keep dreaming big. Stay focused and most of all, have fun while you're doing it.

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