Ep69 Michele Kasl - How to Build a Website That Actually Converts: The Truth About Trust, Messaging, and Standing Out Online

Michele Kasl  0:00  
There's really only two questions that people are asking themselves when they visit your website or when they think about working with you, can they solve my problem, my very specific problem, and do I trust them? If you fail on any one of those two things, you've likely lost them.

Suzanne Taylor-King  0:15  
You know, there's many people in the online space who over complicate things because they want to sell you something. Hey, hey. Welcome to a podcast where dreams meet determination and success is just around the corner. I'm your host, Suzanne Taylor King, and I'm here to help you unlock the full potential of your business and your life. Welcome to unlock your way with SDK. Let's unlock your path to success together. Good morning. Good morning. Everyone. Suzanne Taylor king here for another live episode of unlock your way with SDK, and we're here today with my new friend, Michelle Castle, welcome Michelle.

Michele Kasl  1:07  
Thank you so much. Thanks so much for having me. This is so fun.

Suzanne Taylor-King  1:10  
Oh, thank you so much, because when we first met, it was instant synergy, connection, and I love what you do, and you've been doing it a long time. So building websites, especially on WordPress, is, I mean, at least to me, something you really have to love and master. It's not for the dabbler. So tell us a little bit about what you do. Well, full

Michele Kasl  1:42  
disclosure, I did not start out doing websites at all, so I've had my agency now for 20 years, which is crazy to even say that. Yeah, it's 20 years this year. And when I first got started, like, you know, websites, they were a thing, but I was so focused on print design and actually started out as an illustrator. So yeah, cartooning, drawing, that was my passion growing up, and that's what led me into an a career in art. And then the industry has just changed so much over the course of the 20 years that I've been in it, and I started to see, like, oh, this, you know, this website thing, this is, this is something that I need to be on top of, and I need to learn more about. And we started out doing any platform for anyone, and just realized I'm burning out. Like, I'm totally burning out. I can't possibly keep up with all of this, and so we decided to go all in on WordPress, because we feel that it gives our clients the most control and ownership and flexibility, and we can do it in a way where we're preventing them from making the Mistakes that they're so afraid of making, yeah, so yeah, it's, it's been an evolution. I did not always start out in WordPress or in web at all.

Suzanne Taylor-King  3:09  
You know what is so interesting to me that when we start out in this, you know, entrepreneur journey, we kind of don't know where we're going to end up and but looking back over your 20 year journey, what dots could you connect for us?

Michele Kasl  3:32  
Well, I also never intended to be a business owner, so it was, yeah, I know, crazy. So you know, I know, you know. I mean, I didn't go to school thinking I was going to own a business. I thought I was going to be a creative director at an agency. That was, that was my trajectory, that's where I wanted to end up. I interned at an agency. Wasn't for me. I got my first job out of school. I was an illustrator. It was a great experience. Worked then as an art director, and said, You know what? I think I could do this better. And I was in my 20s, and just decided I'm going to give myself two years to see if I can do this. Wow. And 20 years later, here I am. But the business journey is the entrepreneur journey is not linear at all. So when you talk about those dots, there have been so many just from learning what not to do, learning painfully, what clients you want to work with, what clients aren't such a great fit. I mean, you've been doing it 16 years now too. I'm sure you have your stories of changing gears, pivoting completely. Oh, yeah, yeah.

Suzanne Taylor-King  4:50  
And I think that's one of the reasons that I'm so good with entrepreneurs who need to pivot. Needs. To reinvent. Need to recreate offers, pricing, even their their persona, right? Because I've done it so many times myself, and now looking back over the last 16 years, I can pinpoint exactly why each of those things I learned or got certified or studied, all led to where I am now. I can't look forward and say, What do I want to learn next? It's kind of like trusting what's coming to you and what you're working on and what's what's fun. Before I hit live, we were talking about what's fun, yeah, in business for me, what's fun for you right now? What's, what's the big like? I

Michele Kasl  5:48  
mean, it's so funny. You mentioned you can't connect the dots looking forward, because I just published an article last week in my newsletter with a quote from Steve Jobs. You know, you can only connect the dots looking backwards. Yeah. And it's so true and, well, what we're really focused on right now is helping people go from that version one of their business like maybe they've been in it for a few years. They have some branding, they have some marketing, they have some messaging, but it's not it's not cohesive, it's not working together. And so take them to that version too, like a grown up version, like, yeah, you know, it not where your business started, but where you want to go, and helping them see that that is a possibility, and to really just appreciate how they're showing up every place they're showing up, because it matters. You know, we talked about this before, like how you show up, how you present yourself, and that's for your business too. And we like to walk our clients through, through a process of there's really only two questions that people are asking themselves when they visit your website, or when they think about working with you, it's, can they solve my problem, my very specific problem, and do I trust them? Yeah, that's it. Yeah. So if you fail on any one of those two things, you've likely lost them. And that's, that's kind of like an eye opener for people like, Huh, okay, yeah, it really is that simple

Suzanne Taylor-King  7:26  
and, and I think that simplicity from you, you know, there's many people in the online space, even in coaching, you know, in my world, who over complicate things because they want to sell you something. And I think frameworks are great, formulas are great, signature programs, great. But when you over complicate things, I think because I'm a simplifier, my My why is to challenge the status quo and to simplify through trusted relationships. And when I learned that about myself, everything started to make so much more sense to me, yeah. And I think, how do you keep it simple for your clients that you work with? Yeah?

Michele Kasl  8:30  
I mean, I think it's just an understanding of how people how and why people buy and how and why people establish relationships. There's a ton of psychology behind it, and a lot of people they, you know, well, I'm going to sell this thing because there's a need in the market. Okay, what does that mean? Well, I think people will buy it, right? Okay, you know, it's so it has to be like, we really have to dig a little deeper and focus more on not the thing, but the problem that you're solving. And yeah, now more than ever, because it's just, you know, every day you wake up and you you scroll and you see another quick fix, or, you know, turn your business around. And, you know, 10 days. And, you know, I, like you said, frameworks, things like that, techniques, they're great, and they do work a lot of the times, but a lot of the times they're not specific enough to your business. Yeah? And so yeah, put yourself in something that wasn't made for you. Well,

Suzanne Taylor-King  9:43  
I remember the first coaching program I purchased, and about two weeks into it, I learned that it was the coach's first group coaching program, first group. Business Coaching, first, everything. And I really, what were they even coaches? Well, I mean, first yeah thing, yeah. And I thought, wait a minute, I have been an entrepreneur since the early 90s, before social media, I need somebody with a little bit more experience than this. And not not the online experience, but business experience. And it gave me a whole new, I don't know, just feeling about myself confidence wise, because when I looked at, you know, her brand and what she was offering, and the bravery required to put yourself out there in the world and and have a Business Coaching program that was $10,000 and you had 60 people sign up for it. I thought, oh my gosh, if she can do that, and it's her very first thing on the market. I'm playing really small with what I'm doing. And so I allowed that it was a great program. I met great people, some of whom I'm still in touch with 16 years later, but I would say the real gift of spending that $10,000 on that program was the confidence it gave me and the example of, like, just decide what you want to do and be brave and go and do it.

Michele Kasl  11:48  
Yeah, that's awesome. You know, that was, like, your first, that was the first coaching program that you participated in, okay? And what was your business like at the time? What I was

Suzanne Taylor-King  11:59  
a health coach. Oh, okay, yeah, all right. And I had a great in person business. My clients came to me from me teaching exercise classes at a hot as a hobby. I got a nutrition degree, and I thought, hmm, I'm just going to help people with their food and exercise. And when I came into the online space, which somebody suggested, oh, you should have a Facebook group or whatever, and I was like, and I had to learn. I had to learn everything myself. Yeah, social posting to writing, and it's been, it's been a long

Michele Kasl  12:46  
journey. I mean, that's the entrepreneur's journey. I mean, you start out, we were talking about this before we got started. You have to do all the things yourself, yeah, and you have to figure it out and fail and screw up and learn, and then you get to this point in your career where you say, You know what, I'm not the best at this. And I'm sure there is someone who can help me do this better. So I think it's also just not we live in a DIY culture right now. Everything's DIY, websites, writing, coaching, you name it, it's DIY. But is that the best use of your time?

Suzanne Taylor-King  13:33  
Well, I remember reading a book. It's called buy back your time by Dan Martell. And I love Dan. I love his YouTube videos, and it really conceptualized for me. I've had tremendous growth in the last three years, and it really put in perspective how to be discerning about what you say no to what you say yes to what what you put your fingers on. And it was like this awareness for me that I have fun doing these three things. I get paid a lot for doing one of those things. So how can I just focus there all the time? And it really was about finding great people, great partners, and saying no to more things, which I think entrepreneurs in general have a really hard time with a not to do list,

Michele Kasl  14:47  
the not to do list and the not to work with list. Those are two things that you know, I mean, but you you know a lot of people they, they go into their business like, well, who's your best fit client? We have these. I had a conversation with someone just last week about this, well, who's your best fit client? They're a boutique wellness studio, okay, that was what they said. That's who they said they aspire to be, okay, best fit client, everyone. No, can you be? Be more? Oh, well, you know, we can really help anyone on their wellness journey? No. And I said to them, I'm like, You said one word that automatically rules out every like, more than, more than half of the people that you think you're talking to, and that word is boutique, like, for some reason, like that is, you know, you don't. You're not serving everyone. You don't want to be Planet Fitness, or, you know, whatever health club that, you know, the mass market health club. You want to be boutique. And so that, that one word, like, they kind of were like, Oh yeah, yeah. You know, it's like, it finally clicked, like, well, and I told them, I'm like, that doesn't preclude you from working with people who aren't in that ideal fit client space, but you really need to be focused on who your best fit is, so you can attract them to you.

Suzanne Taylor-King  16:16  
Yeah, yeah. I love I love that, because one word, one word can change a sales page the perception of you so and pricing can can also but one word, like boutique, bespoke is my favorite word. It's a very, very spring is word. I think fashion. Yeah, I think fashion. But I also think, oh, it's more expensive, right? Boutique tells me, yes, less people, more expensive, more private. And isn't it funny how one word can really change the front page of a website. It can change so much for a business,

Michele Kasl  17:09  
yeah, and it's hard to see that when you're in the business, Oh, yeah. And so that's why these, these conversations that we get to have with our clients there, you can almost see the light bulb turning on. Like, Oh, wow. Okay, yeah. And so you asked me earlier, like, what, what am I having fun with? I love those light bulb moments where you pull them back to okay, if you were looking at your business from the outside, and someone said, boutique, like, how would you feel about it? And we talked through that. And, you know, we talked about the the hands on, like, where everyone knows your name and you're not one of 1000 people. And so we talked through all those things, what that one word means to get them to a point where they can really elevate their brand, yeah, and attract the people they want to attract not just everyone.

Suzanne Taylor-King  18:02  
Yeah, I I, as you know, I've been reinventing some systems and processes and lots of landing pages. Well, getting reinvented. Yes, who told me that, you know, the funnel reinvent. But it was really, for me, it was about the customer journey. And, you know, I've have a custom GPT that's helps people craft their customer journey and be more discerning about what that looks like. But when it came time to do it for myself, having, you know, my partner on partners in his agency to really sit down and talk about what I wanted to happen with someone who understood the digital ramifications of that the value in those conversations is so extreme, and I often wonder what that looks like. You know, for website design or website actual building of a website, how, how hands on does it become for you, and do you find that more rewarding?

Michele Kasl  19:24  
Yeah, I mean, you have to. I realized that in order to fully understand the client's process and even their decision making process and working with us, I really needed to understand how our sites are built and what the best tools are. Even if I'm not doing the work myself all of the time, I still do some of it just because I enjoy it. But even if I'm not doing it, I need to understand it enough so I can communicate with them the value in having us do it versus them just going out and. Oh yeah, I'm gonna host it with GoDaddy, and I'm gonna pick out this theme. And then they wonder, why? Why is it so slow? Why is it crashing all the time? Why are these things happening? Well, all of those decisions have to be made up front. And so it's kind of like you choose the best pieces to help you build the strongest foundation. And so whether you're building a landing page, building a funnel, building a web, a full website, even a magazine or a page layout, it's all like puzzle pieces and how that fit together to make that big picture. And then on the tech side of things, it becomes even more important, because you're talking about security, bead, AI, search, SEO, still important. Everyone's saying it's dead, not dead. Yeah, still need, still need semantically sound SEO and technically sound websites, but you need all of those things. And we actually had a client where we did, we did their branding, and we did their website design, and they decided, well, you know, I'm going to take this and I'm going to try developing it on AI. We're going to use an AI tool to build this. I said, Okay, you know that that's your prerogative. Go ahead and try it. He spent 80 hours, 80 hours trying to figure out how to get this thing to, number one, look like the design we put together, and then get it in a, you know, a way that's fast, technically sound ready for AEO search, yeah, and they ended up, guess what, coming right back to us, yeah. And we built it on WordPress,

Suzanne Taylor-King  21:51  
yeah, yeah. So I've built incredible things. I mean, AI is kind of my hobby. I love AI too, but I have a team who does stuff for my clients, and I love what you said about knowing how to do it, so I can't recommend something to a client. I can't suggest changes, different softwares, different technology, unless I understand what's involved. So my fun time is playing with new AI tools. Me too. I just I love it, and I had a conversation a couple days ago that turned into an hour that day and an hour yesterday with a whiz at building AI things, I mean, from websites, lead magnets, you know, really unique automations. And he said to me, I wanted him to come on the show. I wanted him to do some other things. And he's like, no, no, I'm happy here just building and you can sell whatever you want of mine for whatever you want. I'll do it for your clients, and you just, you just pay me for that? And I was like, what? And he said, I want to sit in my hole, in my room with my three computers and all my monitors, and I want to just build stuff. So I sent him an example of something I wanted for a client, and it was a quiz. I said, I don't want to use one of the quiz softwares. I want this custom for her. He said, it'll take me 30 minutes. And I was like, 30 minutes. Now I could do it, sure it would take me for six hours, maybe. He said, 30 minutes, $500 let me know when you want me to and I was like, there's people charging $5,000 for what he does, and because he does it from passion fun, he's really good at what he does. He doesn't care about the money, which makes him more money.

Michele Kasl  24:27  
Wow. I

Suzanne Taylor-King  24:29  
know it was really such an enlightening

Michele Kasl  24:33  
Yeah, did you have him build the quiz? Did he do it?

Suzanne Taylor-King  24:36  
It's in the works. Yes. Cool. Yeah. Very cool. Yeah. And you know when I think about relationships like that, where I can almost sell your stuff better than I can sell my stuff because I understand your value and what you bring to the table. And that's really the type of relationships that I want to have for the next 10 or 20 years. Random networking. You know, don't want to do that. So when, when we talk about ideal clients, we have to think about ideal referral partners as well. And what does that look like for you?

Michele Kasl  25:23  
Yeah, I mean, I would say it, you have to have that ability to talk with someone in a really genuine way about what you do and who you best serve. Because, I mean, we belong to networking groups in the past, and we've gotten some good referrals, and we've gotten some some not so good referrals. And it unless you take time to really develop those relationships and have those conversations and sit and chat over live stream like this and get to know each other, you really can't truly understand the other person's business except for, like, on a surface level and right? So, yeah, I I mean our best fit clients in terms of what we do would be business consultants, business coaches, entrepreneurs looking to level up to their, you know, their bright and shiny version two of their branding and website, and our best referral partners could also be those same folks, because they understand what we're trying to build, the problems we're trying to solve, and who we're trying to help. So, you know, I also, I'm very much a doer. I'm a solver. I'm a problem solver. That's My nature. And so I like to think that we do a little bit of coaching, too in our business, like what we talked about with with the brand, and helping people see things that they couldn't see themselves.

Suzanne Taylor-King  26:58  
Yeah, well, I I love that because you just described me, yeah, and when we connected, I immediately knew, because of who you work with and who I work with, yeah, well, we need to have this conversation, right? We need to get to know each other. We need to establish trust and understanding of what each other does. And I think when you go into, you know, LinkedIn or connecting or a networking event with that mindset, you did not try to sell me a new website. Because I don't even know if you looked at my website before we connected. I dare say, did okay? Do Yeah, yeah. It's, you know, I try to be a good detective, you know, but I cannot really appreciate your thinking here with authentic connection. And I think so much of that is missing in today's, you know, so called networking space. So want to just say kudos to you, because you're good at it, and I recognize that not everyone's good at that, and so when I experience it with someone, immediately, you go up the priority chain of people that I want to surround myself with so thank you. Cool. Well,

Michele Kasl  28:43  
thank you. Yeah, very kind, very sweet of you to say that. And yeah, and yeah. I mean, you really, you need to understand someone before you can even recommend anything to sell to them. I mean, that that's never been my methodology. And I think there's just so much noise out there with quick fix, quick sell, quick whatever you name it. Quick, everything,

Suzanne Taylor-King  29:05  
yeah, but message 1000 people on Facebook and maybe, okay, one, maybe one person would want to buy your stuff. Anyone else meets you? Yeah. Listen, I had an experience a long maybe a year ago now, where I was having my virtual assistant help me with my 2000 person Facebook group. And basically he wouldn't log in as me, he was himself, and he would just be an admin like so if somebody wanted something, he would send it to them, and he was great at it. It was very, very helpful. But one person, and it's funny how we remember the negative, right? One person messaged me and said, Please stop my. Marketing to me, and I said my last message to you was, Hey, how are you? And the message before that was sending you something you asked me for. And he said, I'm just tired of all marketing. Oh, and I thought, huh, well, you know that that wasn't about you. That was no, I know, but is, Hey, how are you nowadays? Is trickster marketing. I call it, I'm I'm tricking you to get into a conversation with me, that's what he felt, wow. And I thought to myself, Wow, if that's how people feel. And I'm curious to my listeners, if you feel like you're getting tricked into conversations or questions or Hey, Michelle, I see you build websites. Are you looking for any new clients? Right now? You know that that is just a question to see if you want to buy their lead gen act, you know, yeah, whatever. Well, and I think

Michele Kasl  31:25  
a lot of people are, you know, it's pervasive on LinkedIn, especially, you know, the worm your way into the conversation and immediately pitch them something, yeah, and I think that that's what people are feeling, even though your comment and question came from a genuine place, and you know, they're already part of your community, and you know they shouldn't have reacted like that. I think it was a reaction to them getting pitched something by someone else, or many people along the way. Yeah. So, yeah. I mean, I feel that a little bit, you know, you can always, I don't like the AI messages, yeah, you can tell, you know, and it's not just about em dashes and whatnot, it it's just, you can tell the tone of voice, it doesn't come across and as human. So I think people are just a little though a little wary and a little cautious and a little tired.

Suzanne Taylor-King  32:30  
So yeah, I think so too. I think one of the things that's been helpful in that messaging space is actually turning on the dictation mode where I speak and it and it types the message I feel like the way I talk is different than how I type and that, and That's interesting from a website perspective. Do we? Do we want our website to be conversational? Do we want it to be bossy, like do this or I don't know what, what do you think

Michele Kasl  33:15  
depends on? It depends on the business. I mean, it depends on what you're trying to do and who you're trying to reach. I can't unequivocally say yes, you need to. Every website needs to have an authoritative headline telling people you know exactly this, this, this and this. No, but I think what you need to think about is, am I communicating that I am the best person to solve this person's problem? That's it. And if you approach all of your messaging from that standpoint, and don't make it like a restaurant menu, of picking certain, you know, choose your own adventure, what services and all the things you do, but you're really honing in on these are the problems that we can solve, like right now, I think then we can massage the tone of voice. Does that make sense?

Suzanne Taylor-King  34:08  
Yeah, it does. And I feel, you know, when I'm attracted to someone in the online space, they're saying something unique and different, or using words like we said earlier, that are different, unique, and I always give my friend Tim Windsor a shout out here. He calls his podcast uncommodified. So yes, I love, I love his podcast. Oh, good, yeah, please look at his website. That's what got me with him. So he was a total stranger, and I stumbled across his LinkedIn profile, and in his headline, it said, provocateur. Her and host of the uncommodified podcast, and how it's like absolutely, yeah, yeah, and the uniqueness I actually showed my coaching group. Hey, I just found this stranger. I want to show you how I messaged him and how now we're having a conversation and he's going to be on my podcast, and how I did that very authentically. So I used it as a teaching moment. But the cool part when I was showing my group, I said, this guy. And I said, Why? Why am I picking this guy out of a list of 30 people, and they knew great sign. And then when I clicked on his website and it was two sheep standing up, dressed in colorful suits, I immediately the visual got me to understand his brand at a whole new level. You can still be a sheep, but stand out you could. I don't know. It was so good. So what part do visuals play in communicating this on your website?

Michele Kasl  36:18  
It's so important and and it's not like not everyone is at that quirky level of creativity, and that's okay. And, you know, a lot of businesses are like, Well, I'm an accountant, you know what? What am I going to do? You know, I'm talking about people's money. You know, they're not going to want cheap and in suits, and maybe they would, but who knows, but it's okay to be, you know, straight laced, buttoned up professional and yet still have just a little bit of uniqueness to you. And maybe it's your color palette, you know, maybe it's not just the traditional blue, black, gray of finance. Maybe there's a pop of pink in it, or something that just adds, like, a different edge to it, or maybe it's the fonts that we choose for you. And you know, I'm not going to downplay stock photos because they're, they're a necessity. We use stock photos all the time. But what if we took one of those stock photos and we made it a duo tone instead of full color? Yeah, then you're, you're, you know, you're taking it to a different level, and you're adding some uniqueness to something that would otherwise be very kind of boring. Well,

Suzanne Taylor-King  37:32  
I noticed, you know, I came from a dental career, and now I noticed that most dentists have the same exact website in the same exact colors. It's a certain blue with white and some black text the same it's like the same person they like me. It might there's, there's four dentists in my town, and if any of them are watching this, please reach out to Michelle, out of color, out of color, and have it be unique. And I find this fascinating how certain industries just copy each other, copy, copy, copy, copy, oh, do what they do. Do they get lots of traffic, do what they do. And what's your advice there? I

Michele Kasl  38:34  
think it's very it's wise to be aware of what the industry is doing and what what your competitors are doing, but you you are not them. You don't want to be them. Otherwise. What's the difference? There's no difference. So someone's going to choose you, or someone's going to choose them, and it doesn't matter. That's not what we want. We want people to say, Oh, yeah. Susan Suzanne's dental practice. They do? You know, awesome veneers, and that's what they're well known for. Yeah, do you know what I'm saying? Like they're not just a dental practice,

Suzanne Taylor-King  39:07  
right? Right? And I think that is a hard message to swallow for certain industries, because they're stuck in the standard.

Michele Kasl  39:21  
Well, they have to be brave to step out of that. You have to have some bravery to step out of it and to try something that's a little different. Yeah, not, not like I said. Don't have to go with the sheep route. I love it, but it's not for everyone. But, you know, do something a little different, and that's what we're trying to extract from our clients and our prospects, when we talk to them, is like, what makes you you why'd you start this business? Why do you do what you do? You know? Why do you love what you do? And eventually we get there, and we find that one thing, or those couple of things, that sets them apart.

Suzanne Taylor-King  40:00  
I love it. I love it. Well, what's, what's next for you, the next 10 years? What's, what's on task? Oh

Michele Kasl  40:08  
my gosh. I I feel like AI has just thrown such a curveball into the mix. I have no idea. I mean, you were talking about AI tools. That's my shiny object. Wait, if I'm going to be distracted, it's going to be by something, some sort of AI tool or something.

Suzanne Taylor-King  40:26  
Oh, does that mean I have permission to send you yes when I find it? Please.

Michele Kasl  40:30  
Awesome, awesome. Yes, please. And I love Evelyn. So you know, I love your tips too. Everyone needs to sign up for Suzanne's newsletter.

Suzanne Taylor-King  40:41  
She's quite sassy, and she said some things the past couple weeks that Suzanne wouldn't quite say. So she's she's a little bit bolder than me, and I think it's the martinis that fuel the bravery, which is so fun, and I was scared to do that. I'll be honest, the whole news letter or her or not the newsletter, but having a newsletter written in a persona. And when I thought of the persona, it was all created with an AI tool, but when I programmed it, I said, I want, and when I said it out loud, I want to cross between me my Mother, June Cleaver and a sassy drunk News correspondent who suffer, who smokes, who is not married, and she spends all of her time reporting on technology and AI and what it came back to me a little bit of refinement, but now I can go to that tool and write a newsletter on a topic, in her voice, add in my own input. The drink recipes in the newsletter have been a huge hit. Well, I'm going to turn that into a little book. Are you? Yeah? It's like, recipe book, yeah, yeah, cocktail. That's cute. I want a copy. Okay, you're on the list, and I think the bravery required there to do something different in your space, that's fun. My goal is laugh out loud every time you read it. Check and if it's not that I don't want to do it. And I love the message that also you know that undertone of bravery required. And if I can do it, you can do it, type of feeling, and I love that's how you show up in the online space. Look, if I can do it, you can do it. And I think that's where we become that mentor and the guide for our people. And I don't know, I don't know what the next 10 years look like, except keep having fun,

Michele Kasl  43:27  
keep having fun and just keep, I think, just keep supporting people in a genuine way. Yeah, you know, do what you can to help people sort it out. Because I think we're all on this business journey together, at least until the robots take over. But we'll wait on that a little bit. But we're all just trying to figure it out. And really, like, I don't need, you know, a lot of people say, Well, do you want to join this networking group? But there's another designer in it. Like, okay, that's cool. Yeah, you know, because we're so different, you know, who people that would work with me or with us are not the same people that's going to work with the other designer. We bring different skills. We have a different personality. Yeah, you either click or you don't. So there's plenty of opportunity for everyone to have a piece of I love hot. Yeah, I love that. I

Suzanne Taylor-King  44:19  
mean, there's three business coaches in my coaching group, and you know, my, my the way I do things, it's it. It's very inclusive for other people who do what I do. And I think when, when you've been doing something for a long time, you naturally end up attracting other people who do what you do. So kudos on that.

Michele Kasl  44:43  
Yeah, too, yeah. I mean, I think, you know, a lot of people get very standoffish about it, but, and I was that way too when I first started the business. Like I want to, you know, I want to join this group, but only if it's non competitive. And, you know, they do. Yeah? So. Think completely something SEO. All right, we're not SEO experts. We do it, but we're not SEO experts. Well, I saw that as too, too competitive. Now it's just like, the more the merrier, because everyone brings different skills to the table. You can learn.

Suzanne Taylor-King  45:12  
Well, that's, that's the growth process that you know, being in business for as long as you and I have, I think you get to that point of collaboration over competition and that inclusive type feeling. Do you have anything happening that you want to promote or you want to talk about in the next couple of weeks?

Michele Kasl  45:35  
Actually, yes, I am co hosting a webinar about attracting media attention for your brand. So I've partnered with Barbara draidy, who's an expert, has tons of media relationships Forbes times, Reuters gets people in front of those, those folks, and but before you get in front of them, you better look at how you're showing up and make sure you're showing up with the right message, and so looking at your branding and that sort of thing, it's a 30 minute training. I can provide the link. It's a little too long to share audible you here, but yeah,

Suzanne Taylor-King  46:14  
yeah, let's do that. Let's put it in the comments here. Of the lie, well, Facebook, LinkedIn, and, for sure, YouTube, and I would love to share that in my private community, yeah, and because I think that's really valuable, the insights are really valuable. You have to look the part. And it says and fake it till you make it this is you have to look as accomplished as you are and consistent in the online space. So huge that topic,

Michele Kasl  46:47  
yeah, and if people want to connect with me, I have a newsletter my Monday mantra.com, and so we're talking about tech AI, and everything from the world of board games, which is a passion of mine. So connecting business to board games, if you're looking for the best game recommendations,

Suzanne Taylor-King  47:07  
I could see a little shout out in Evelyn's newsletter about that. I love that. Yeah, yeah. All right, let's do it.

Michele Kasl  47:17  
Thank you so much. Suzanne, thank you again. So much fun. Thank you

Suzanne Taylor-King  47:22  
love it all right. Everyone reach out to Michelle if you have questions on how you're showing up, online, website and such. Have a great day and a awesome weekend, and we'll see you next week. Thank you for tuning in to another empowering episode of unlock your way. I hope you found today's discussion inspiring and you're ready to take your business and personal growth to that next level. If you're feeling as fired up as I am and eager to unlock that full potential, I'm here to help you on your journey and provide that personalized guidance tailored to your unique goals and challenges. Simply book a one on one coaching. Call with me, and we'll dive deep into your business aspirations and see how we could co create a roadmap for your success, and whether you're striving to scale an enterprise or just getting started. I'm here to support you every step of the way. To schedule your coaching call, simply visit the website at unlock your way with stk.com click on the book a call button, and we'll turn your dreams into that reality. Subscribe and review on your favorite podcast platform and on YouTube, plus, you can join over 800 entrepreneurs in the IDEA Lab Facebook group. Let's make success as an entrepreneur happen together until next time I'm SDK. Keep dreaming big. Stay focused and most of all, have fun while you're doing it.

AI VO  49:09  
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