Ep22 Kon Apostolopoulos - A Blueprint for Cultivating Workplace Commitment & Performance

00:00:02:01 - 00:00:31:13
Suzanne Taylor-King
Good morning. Good morning, everyone. It's another Friday here with Unlock Your Way with STK and I am so excited for today's conversation with one of my very, very early LinkedIn connections. Con a past a flop, Ellis. I did it. I did it. I did the last day. Welcome, Con.

00:00:31:15 - 00:00:32:28
Kon Apostolopoulos

It's good to be with you, Suzanne.

00:00:32:29 - 00:00:42:09
Suzanne Taylor-King
How are you? So good. So good. Really just excited about your new book. And there our conversation is going to go today.

00:00:42:11 - 00:00:51:22
Kon Apostolopoulos

I'm excited. It's been way overdue. My dear friend. I've been watching you grow and scale and help so many wonderful people. And I thought, it's time for us to reconnect.

00:00:51:25 - 00:01:22:20
Suzanne Taylor-King
Thank you. Thank you. Well, Khan is a bestselling author, speaker, coach, and over 12 years of facilitating for companies. So, you know, this conversation is going to go in a really fun place. The change management that you do can and your positivity shine through in all of your content. So I'm just honored to spend that time with you as well.

00:01:22:20 - 00:01:36:24
Kon Apostolopoulos

Thank you, my friend. Thank you, my friend. I'm going to I'm looking forward to our conversation because I know that our discussion, I think, will spark some interest in our audience. I think people will find nuggets here and there that apply to them. So I hope they bring attention.

00:01:36:27 - 00:02:14:00
Suzanne Taylor-King
Yes. Well, let's start off with one of the things I say all the time, that if you're not astonishing, people with your value or providing massive value in your marketplace or in your business to your employees, you have no chance of standing out in today's marketplace. And I'm excited for that part of the conversation because I think this is really the missing key with so many businesses today.

00:02:14:03 - 00:02:41:02
Kon Apostolopoulos

Indeed, indeed. And that's a big part of why you and I and value to our clients. Why? Because the way that I explain what I do to people when when I have, you know, family gatherings or you meet somebody and they ask you what you do, the best way for me to explain it to people is that most companies spend time and money and resources to build these wonderful business plans that they think will move them forward.

00:02:41:04 - 00:03:10:09
Kon Apostolopoulos

And what I explain to them is that these best laid plans are not worth the paper they're written on. If you don't have the people to execute those plans. So, so much of what we do, especially when you have a company that is beyond just you and you have other people involved, whatever size that is, whether it's one or two people that work with you or it's a 100,000 like I've done in the past with companies that large, it matters because you have to get results through those people.

00:03:10:11 - 00:03:21:15
Kon Apostolopoulos

And if those people are not engaged, they're not on board, they're not aligned with what you're trying to do, you're not going to get there or at least you're not going to get there in the way that you could.

00:03:21:18 - 00:03:29:19
Suzanne Taylor-King
Is that is that really what drove you to write this newest book of yours, The Engagement Blueprint?

00:03:29:21 - 00:03:51:25
Kon Apostolopoulos

It is. And if we take you know, like a quick like a quick history to the recent years that we've done. You know, you and I talked when I first put out the first book, which was the seven Keys to Navigating a Crisis. That book was written at the start of the pandemic to really help individuals and organizations navigate this crisis, this change period, and get through to the other side.

00:03:51:27 - 00:04:14:07
Kon Apostolopoulos

Well, at some point when we did get to the other side, eventually and thank goodness we're out of that. My clients started asking, what's next? And that's the same time frame when we're looking at the great resignation. A lot of the quiet quitting, all of those terms that became familiar to us with people really disengaged in over the last almost two years now.

00:04:14:10 - 00:04:35:06
Kon Apostolopoulos

I started researching the topic of engagement because it is something that's very relevant and important to what I do. And on one hand, I was doing the research and trying to understand be behind the headlines, behind these millions of people that were leaving their jobs, not knowing where they're going, all of this change in the workplace. What was really behind that driving that?

00:04:35:08 - 00:04:58:03
Kon Apostolopoulos

And I found that engagement or disengagement was playing a big part of that. On the other hand, I was still serving clients that had some of their best years during and right after the pandemic. And to me, I made the connection and realized that part of the reason why they were performing so well, especially with their people, is because they were engaging them.

00:04:58:06 - 00:05:37:04
Kon Apostolopoulos

And so I found the perfect place to validate the facts that I was finding, the thing formation that I was uncovering and the application of it with my clients. So it was very near and dear to my home. Furthermore, I took it and I interviewed some really, really interesting leaders across the globe and very diverse industries and found that their success also coincided with the findings that I had, Their great work that they had with their people over many, many years was pointing to the same evidence that I found that there are four drivers of engagement and if we get those right, it's really going to make a difference.

00:05:37:04 - 00:05:54:03
Kon Apostolopoulos

People are really going to give us their best. They're going to be committed and performance is going to go up. So that's part of the reason where I went, this is where it is. This is how I'm going to help my clients. This is going to how I'm going to help my audience, my community move forward and really excel.

00:05:54:05 - 00:06:03:17
Kon Apostolopoulos

So preparing post-pandemic and hitting the ground, running and really excelling and separating themselves in the marketplace to really win in business.

00:06:03:20 - 00:06:09:25
Suzanne Taylor-King
Wow. Wow. What are what are the four drivers of engagement?

00:06:09:27 - 00:06:34:23
Kon Apostolopoulos

Well, what I found, to be honest with you, Suzanne, is that these four drivers don't just apply in the workplace. They're human drivers. They apply to us regardless. The first one is our need to feel valued. We all have that need. We all want to be appreciated for what we do. We all want to be valued. And what that looks like in the everyday world is everything from creating a safe place, not just physically.

00:06:34:23 - 00:06:56:10
Kon Apostolopoulos

Because I support a lot of companies. For example, in the construction space or in other industries where physical safety is part of their DNA. But it goes beyond that. We have to create, as leaders, an environment where people feel emotionally and psychologically safe to be themselves, to be able to voice their thoughts, their opinions, their ideas without fear of retribution.

00:06:56:16 - 00:06:57:15
Suzanne Taylor-King
Yes.

00:06:57:18 - 00:07:21:21
Kon Apostolopoulos

So that's one thing. I mean, another element that contributes to value is the essence of respect. Now, most companies have respect as one of their core values, but in reality, it's important for us to understand that respect is in every moment, every day kind of thing. And it comes in two flavors. There is the old respect that we have to each other just because we owe it to each other.

00:07:21:21 - 00:07:41:27
Kon Apostolopoulos

We should be interacting with civility, with respect, with kindness, with each other. And then there's the second level of respect, which is the earned respect. And that's the respect we give each other when we go above and beyond, when we make a contribution to the team, when we do something for others, we earn the respect of other people and so on and so forth.

00:07:41:27 - 00:08:00:01
Kon Apostolopoulos

It's gratitude, it's kindness. It's time and attitude that we bring to the table. Do we give people the attention that they need? I mean, how many times have I heard people say, you know what, I sat down with my supervisor and he or she was spending more time on their phone or their computer, even though it was our one on one.

00:08:00:03 - 00:08:23:21
Kon Apostolopoulos

Well, that sends a very clear message to people. So all of these little things that you can do day to day, whether it's your coworkers, your employees, your family, all of that shows people that you value them. So feeling valued is one driver. The next one, Susan, is feeling connected with tribal creatures. You all want to feel like we belong.

00:08:23:21 - 00:08:47:15
Kon Apostolopoulos

I mean, even you and I in the solopreneur world in many ways. How many times have we craved that connection to others? That's why you and I love grabbing a cup of coffee together and sitting down and talking about what's going on. It's the same in the workplace. People want to feel connected to their coworkers, to their team, to their leaders, and they all want to be connected as well between their goals and what the team is trying to accomplish.

00:08:47:17 - 00:09:09:22
Kon Apostolopoulos

As leaders, if we can discover that, create those connections for people, person to person, but also individual goals to team goals, that's where the magic really happens. But that requires us to be able to understand the principles of creating and building a high performing team, which is something I talk about. The third driver is the driver of productivity.

00:09:09:22 - 00:09:28:06
Kon Apostolopoulos

We all have the need to feel productive that we are contributing in a meaningful way. The way that I explain it to people is that if we were to take a group photo of a bunch of us together, then I was to give you the photo. What's one of the first things that you would do? Well, for most of us, if you're anything like me, you'd look for where you are in the picture, right?

00:09:28:10 - 00:09:29:15
Suzanne Taylor-King
Look for yourself.

00:09:29:17 - 00:09:48:03
Kon Apostolopoulos

Exactly. Because we all want to know where do we fit in? How do we fit in? How does our contribution add to that? One of the most powerful and most empowering things that you can do to your team is show them. Connect the dots for them, and show them how everything that they do contributes to the bigger picture.

00:09:48:06 - 00:10:11:08
Kon Apostolopoulos

It creates personal accountability, creates ownership and pride in what they're doing, and people want to contribute. If you want to see what the pure joy of contribution looks like, look at a volunteer event. Look at the people there that are not making money doing that, but are full of joy and satisfaction for making a difference. That's the power of productivity.

00:10:11:11 - 00:10:46:29
Suzanne Taylor-King
I love that so much because one of the I heard something a couple of weeks ago that people don't join community ese or group coaching programs or companies for what we think they do. And it's based on everything that you're saying. People actually join with other people for the intellectual and the social capital of being with the other people in that room.

00:10:47:02 - 00:11:21:08
Suzanne Taylor-King
Is there a long term for the communal capital for that? The relationship of the group as a whole, and this was really interesting to me. Doing group coaching, having a community. Why do people stay? What? So they might sign up to learn something or they might take a job because they need a paycheck. A stay at that job because they're receiving that support.

00:11:21:09 - 00:11:37:20
Suzanne Taylor-King
All these drivers that you're talking about, to me, that's the communal capital. The the benefits from being in a tribe, in a group, and that can easily be your company. Now, with the right culture in mind.

00:11:37:23 - 00:11:52:24
Kon Apostolopoulos

In the end, you have a choice. As leaders, as business owners, we have a choice to create that culture because culture is nothing more than the way we do things. If you don't like your culture, change the way you do things. And that's what I tell people. It's as simple as that. It's not easy, but it's as simple as that.

00:11:52:24 - 00:12:23:29
Kon Apostolopoulos

Change your behaviors in the way that you act, and it's going to start impacting your culture. So the need to feel valued, the need to feel connected, the need to feel productive. And you touched on the last one, which is the need that we have to feel supported to learn and grow. In every case, most people want to feel like there is some sense of progression, if not, you know, upwards, at least more interesting work, a way to kind of add some variety to their work, add some meaning to their work from that perspective.

00:12:24:01 - 00:12:47:24
Kon Apostolopoulos

So what I tell people is you got to make sure that you start stimulating that drive before them because, you know, take water. Water is a life force. But the difference between a swamp and a river is movement. It's that movement. It's constant movement. When we get stagnant, things start deteriorating. They start breaking down. They start getting toxic.

00:12:47:27 - 00:13:10:04
Kon Apostolopoulos

We got to keep some flow to things. We got to keep movement, even slight movement, even lateral movement for a lot of our people challenged them in different ways. So there's always something for them to look forward to. We all have that need. So those are the four drivers that I found of engagement, and it's something that leaders can do in their own teams no matter how big or small they are.

00:13:10:11 - 00:13:18:11
Kon Apostolopoulos

Whether you're the CEO of a multimillion dollar company that has hundreds and thousands of employees.

00:13:18:13 - 00:13:19:00
Suzanne Taylor-King
Who.

00:13:19:03 - 00:13:30:28
Kon Apostolopoulos

Or you are a team leader of two, three, four or five people, the way that you act, the way that you behave, you can help build that culture of commitment and performance.

00:13:31:00 - 00:14:00:21
Suzanne Taylor-King
Yeah, I love that. You know, I'm a team of three people, you know, and sometimes I think my assistant is the leader of the team. You know, I met with him this morning at 8:00, which is 8:00 at night for him, and he gave me a to do list today. It was like, this is this is somebody who feels autonomous.

00:14:00:21 - 00:14:02:05
Suzanne Taylor-King
He feels.

00:14:02:07 - 00:14:03:06
Kon Apostolopoulos

Safe.

00:14:03:09 - 00:14:07:15
Suzanne Taylor-King
Safe. He feels like he can contribute.

00:14:07:17 - 00:14:07:24
Kon Apostolopoulos

To your.

00:14:08:01 - 00:14:30:11
Suzanne Taylor-King
Business. And, you know, I've referred him to other people because of that, because, you know, as a solopreneur, I need someone who doesn't require me holding their hand. And I'm not good at that. I'm not good at saying, do this list of things for me.

00:14:30:18 - 00:14:42:25
Kon Apostolopoulos

Right. That's but that's a big thing because you've created an environment where he feels ownership. He feels like he contributes. He's part of the team. Your success is his success.

00:14:42:27 - 00:14:43:12
Suzanne Taylor-King
Yes.

00:14:43:12 - 00:15:03:29
Kon Apostolopoulos

And that makes him offer that discretionary effort that we all have most of the time. You know, one of the biggest fears that that business owners and business leaders that I talk to have is that people don't care as much about their business as they do, that they are giving contributing. They're trying to make a difference for their people, but they don't feel that they're getting that return on that investment.

00:15:04:01 - 00:15:25:23
Kon Apostolopoulos

I mean, for any business owner, the labor line, what you spend on people is probably one of the biggest cost items on your on your on your piano. So you hope you expect that what you're getting in return has value. Well, it can, because part of what I teach my clients to do is make sure that every dollar that you spend is a dollar well-spent.

00:15:25:25 - 00:15:48:06
Kon Apostolopoulos

When you align things, when you make things work, when you apply the performance frameworks that I've brought to them over the years that I've been fine tuning this, it makes a difference for them because that way everything is lined up and they get the most out of their workforce. The way I explain it is we transform our workplace so we can win in the marketplace.

00:15:48:09 - 00:16:19:06
Suzanne Taylor-King
Well, that's truly the definition of human potential, right to know, you know, that most people want to be better, do better, they want to grow. It's just part of our DNA as humans. We want that for ourselves and when we don't get that, I think it was Abraham Maslow who talked about the gap between who you're capable of being and where you're actually being.

00:16:19:08 - 00:16:55:19
Suzanne Taylor-King
And in that gap is depression, anxiety, stress, overwhelm because, you know, you're not living up to your potential and engagement, whether it's in a community, in a Facebook group or in a company is really, I think, the driver of success. Look at when somebody looks at their social media numbers and they say, well, great, you post every day, you get one like no comments.

00:16:55:19 - 00:17:20:27
Suzanne Taylor-King
Do you get any clients from it? Is anybody inbound from your content? That's that's the lowest definition of engagement for me. But personal engagement, do you get buy in from the people that are working for you? Do they do they follow you because they have to or because they get to.

00:17:21:00 - 00:17:41:25
Kon Apostolopoulos

Right. Right. And that's and that's a big part of that is up to us because we can hire the right people. We can train them smartly, and managing that process becomes a lot easier. And so we have the ability, again, as leaders, as business owners, to be able to influence that in such a strong way. But it's not enough.

00:17:41:26 - 00:17:57:20
Kon Apostolopoulos

I mean, a lot of times I realize it's not enough just to tell people that it's going to change things when they're in the midst of a toxic environment. A lot of times it's like the frog boiling in slowly in water. They don't realize how bad it is. I asked people, I said, you know, how do you feel Sunday thinking about Monday?

00:17:57:20 - 00:18:24:09
Kon Apostolopoulos

You going into the office if you don't get excited and instead you have this ache, this cramp in your stomach, You know, you're in a toxic environment, but beyond what you're feeling, there are there's proof that this is costing you a lot. Let me give you some numbers that I want to throw out from my research. Last year, lack of productivity due to disengagement cost American companies $350 billion.

00:18:24:11 - 00:18:58:09
Kon Apostolopoulos

When you spread that out across the globe, that skyrockets to 7.8 trillion in lost productivity. Now, why? Why? Because if you think you have five employees, what the numbers show is that 21% or one in five are basically engaged. They're the ones that if you were in a boat, one in five globally. Wow. If you look at that, that's the one person in a five man boat or five woman boat that is paddling like crazy trying to make things happen.

00:18:58:12 - 00:19:22:24
Kon Apostolopoulos

Three of them are just along for the beautiful ride. Every now and again, they'll dip their paddle in the contribute a little bit, but most of the time they're looking around. They're enjoying themselves, collecting a paycheck. And then there's this one person at the back, the 19% that's actively poking a hole in your boat to sink it because they are so unhappy, because their engagement needs are not getting met and they are spreading cancer in your organization.

00:19:22:26 - 00:19:58:28
Kon Apostolopoulos

That person is costing you in lost productivity 34% of their annual salary. So think about that. If you have I mean, I challenge you. I mean, challenge our audience right now. Pull out a piece of paper and tell me, write down how many people do you have working for you And with you write that number down. If you have that number and you think that one in five is actively disengaged on average and costing you money, 34% of their salary, put that down for every $10,000 that you're paying that person, they're costing you 3400.

00:19:59:01 - 00:20:30:10
Kon Apostolopoulos

Now, do the multiplication about how much you're paying them and how many of them you have, and all of a sudden you realize this is not just a nice to have. This is truly a differentiator. Yeah, because you are losing money. And if you're trying to make payroll on Friday, that's where you're losing that money. And that money not only cannot you can save that money by having the right people working for you and engaging the people that you do have, but think about how much more you can make forward progress because your people are truly giving their best.

00:20:30:14 - 00:20:38:08
Kon Apostolopoulos

Like your assistant who's owning it and taking you forward, helping you move your business forward. That's the difference, Susan.

00:20:38:11 - 00:21:02:24
Suzanne Taylor-King
Wow. I mean, I'm just thinking you just showed why it's important to bring someone like you into a company. Because that number. I can't even imagine if I had ten employees and five of them were not engaged.

00:21:02:27 - 00:21:21:27
Kon Apostolopoulos

It's a it's a huge it's a staggering situation. I mean, you realize why you're not making the progress that you feel you should be making and why at the end of the day, you're talented people, you're most talented, Your best people are not going to tolerate it. They're not They have choices. They don't want to sit in a toxic environment as much as they like you.

00:21:21:29 - 00:21:27:02
Kon Apostolopoulos

They have choices. At some point, what you're going to be left with is the debris.

00:21:27:04 - 00:21:58:18
Suzanne Taylor-King
Yeah. Yeah, I can. I can really see how you know that person at the back of the boat. Such a vivid image that you painted with that story. You know, that person who's sitting there not paddling, maybe even paddling backwards. Yeah. You know, and that can really bring down everyone else in the boat, whether it's five people or 500 people, one bad apple.

00:21:58:21 - 00:22:12:19
Suzanne Taylor-King
And we've all worked in places like that where one person badmouthing everything negative. Everything. Right. Really lowers the morale and the engagement of everyone else.

00:22:12:26 - 00:22:31:15
Kon Apostolopoulos

Yeah, I mean, think about it. I mean, on the factory floor of your 500 employees, 100 of them on average could be disengaged at varying degrees. I mean, think about what that does to your culture. If you played just the averages. Now, again, it doesn't have to be that way. We don't have to tolerate toxic workplaces. We can do something about it.

00:22:31:21 - 00:22:54:12
Kon Apostolopoulos

Leverage the drivers, start applying them. That's why I wrote them out in plain English in the book with facts, with information, and with how to's about how to go about it. But with my clients that I work with, I mentioned this to you because it's just about increasing their commitment and really getting to the performance. Well, when I work with large organizations or with companies that ask me, okay, so this is great.

00:22:54:16 - 00:23:19:05
Kon Apostolopoulos

Are you telling me that if I just do these things here, it's going to make a deal? I said, Yes, but there's more to it. So the way that we go about getting that is really applying a framework, like I mentioned to you, where we understand that the investment that we're making is really going to take root. Why we have to, first and foremost, go in and make sure that our people have the ability, the skills, the knowledge, the abilities to execute.

00:23:19:07 - 00:23:41:23
Kon Apostolopoulos

So on one hand, we need to develop individual competencies, so people need to be able to execute the jobs that you want them to do. And then we pair that up with the commitment, their desire, their willingness to do it. So one requires training, whether that's on the job training, formal training, like you and I might do other ways of having coaching, doing that.

00:23:41:23 - 00:24:10:14
Kon Apostolopoulos

And then we extend that coaching over to gain commitment through individual and group coaching programs or mentoring programs within the company or apprenticeships, anything that will help create the environment where it shapes people's desire and confidence to execute. So competence and commitment between those two is where we where we find the feeling valued. When you do that for people, they realize how valued they feel.

00:24:10:16 - 00:24:30:11
Kon Apostolopoulos

Then when we take a commitment and we layer on that teamwork, because a lot of times what I'll do is I work with companies to enhance their team work. We do team building activities. We do sessions where we get everybody on the same page, whether it's we're rolling out a new approach, a new product, a new strategy. We do strategic planning, whatever that is.

00:24:30:13 - 00:25:13:18
Kon Apostolopoulos

We combine teamwork and individual commitment to get to the connection piece. That's where you feel connected. Then when you have competence and you have systems in place that really enhances your productivity, when you have the right systems in place and people are able to execute their job well, that's how they feel productive. So in between systems and teamwork, what you have is the opportunity to support people so they can learn and grow through career path planning, through succession planning, through performance management systems that allow them to truly flourish through group incentives, where you're really rewarding the efforts, individual excellence through group activity.

00:25:13:20 - 00:25:29:01
Kon Apostolopoulos

All of those things are part of a framework of the four pillars competence, commitment, teamwork and systems that I apply. And I have been applying that for 30 years now. That really is the foundation for people to leverage those drivers.

00:25:29:03 - 00:25:50:13
Suzanne Taylor-King
Wow. Wow. I so, so many questions. My my first question recently I worked with a large company who you know, remote workforce most of their employees are joining meetings via Zoom.

00:25:50:15 - 00:25:50:25
Kon Apostolopoulos

Right.

00:25:51:00 - 00:26:19:29
Suzanne Taylor-King
And one thing I noticed, you know, in my I guess, discovery phase of this client was that no one was on camera. No one. And I thought, well, this is weird. This is a team meeting and nobody's on camera. Some people had like a little picture of themselves, as you know, in the center of the screen. But most had nothing.

00:26:20:02 - 00:26:21:00
Kon Apostolopoulos

00:26:21:02 - 00:26:53:23
Suzanne Taylor-King
And I thought right there, that's a change that has to happen in order for people to feel like they know their coworkers, that, you know, between the background, you know, being slightly personal, you get a little peek into somebody's world, but also facial expressions, body language. Are they paying attention? Are they looking at the camera or are they over here multitasking?

00:26:53:25 - 00:27:04:13
Suzanne Taylor-King
There's so much that can be gained from just that small change. And they weren't willing to even address it.

00:27:04:15 - 00:27:05:06
Kon Apostolopoulos

00:27:05:09 - 00:27:17:24
Suzanne Taylor-King
And I thought, I can't help you any further if you can't look at the number one driver of psychological safety is knowing your coworkers.

00:27:17:26 - 00:27:25:27
Kon Apostolopoulos

Yeah, I mean, think about it. That's the equivalent of not making eye contact when you're seeing somebody.

00:27:25:29 - 00:27:31:25
Suzanne Taylor-King
Yeah. Or. Or being here talking to you while doing this.

00:27:31:27 - 00:28:04:19
Kon Apostolopoulos

Correct. Hiding behind them. And that's. It doesn't make people feel comfortable. It doesn't make them feel connected. But again, to your point, there may be an element of people don't feel safe, they feel judged. They feel whatever. To me, breaking down that barrier would you're absolutely right, would be one of the first steps to truly opening up this team and helping them feel connected, even during the COVID years, I was talking to my clients and helping to educate them on the fact that we can no longer afford to just be the old style, the old playbook of leadership.

00:28:04:22 - 00:28:05:09
Suzanne Taylor-King
Yeah.

00:28:05:12 - 00:28:36:03
Kon Apostolopoulos

That's proven to be very lazy and ineffective right now in a world where some people are in-person, some people a virtual, some people a hybrid. We have to evolve our leadership, and I call that the use of the leadership paradox and a paradox essentially two opposite forces. But when you're able to grasp those two opposite forces and synthesize them into something more evolved, more complex, you're now engaging people at a different level.

00:28:36:05 - 00:29:01:06
Kon Apostolopoulos

Here's an example. When we are dealing with a remote workforce, for example, I need to have on one hand empathy and understanding that somebody may not have the luxury of a dedicated office space in their home, whatever the case might be. I need to be understanding of their circumstances. Perhaps one of the reasons why they're working remotely or virtually all the time is because they have some other responsibilities that they're trying to juggle.

00:29:01:14 - 00:29:21:20
Kon Apostolopoulos

Maybe they're taking care they're a caregiver, taking care of an elderly parent, or they have young children that have needs and they have to do certain things. So on one hand, I need to be empathetic as a leader and understand their unique circumstances. But on the other hand, I need to bring tough love in order to set healthy boundaries so I protect the person.

00:29:21:22 - 00:29:42:20
Kon Apostolopoulos

But I also protect the interests of the team. And I have to balance those things out. So I combine empathy and tough love together to be able to set that. I may look at it and say, for example, you know what? From this time to this time, I need you focus. I need you on camera. I need to know that you're on point and then you can go take care of that and break up your schedule so it makes things up.

00:29:42:22 - 00:29:59:15
Kon Apostolopoulos

I may introduce a second paradox, which is basically not just managing outputs, but managing outcomes. And I look at it and I say, Okay, here are your three priorities this week that I need you to get up. How and when you get that done is up to you based on your needs. But I need you to get them done.

00:29:59:18 - 00:30:21:08
Kon Apostolopoulos

And here is I'm managing the outcome times rather than how much time you're spending on the keyboard. So the third one, for example, is take a look at what we are doing right now. You and I are on opposite ends of the country, yet we are feeling like we're in the same room. We are using high tech technology to create high touch and connection.

00:30:21:10 - 00:30:39:12
Kon Apostolopoulos

We can do more of that because we don't have the luxury with our virtual teammates for that five minute walk from the meeting room to the break room where I'm going to catch up with you and say, Hey, Suzanne, how's things going? How's the kids? What happened? Hey, I heard. How did the party go this weekend? We connect on a human level.

00:30:39:12 - 00:31:03:02
Kon Apostolopoulos

We connect and we create those opportunities for bonding. If I don't have that, I need to create that through the technology. And I need to create those moments where we are connected and build that trust, build that opportunity for us to really come together as a team. So embrace the paradox and create that third and better option, if you will.

00:31:03:04 - 00:31:39:07
Suzanne Taylor-King
Well, it's interesting you made me think about when, you know, before I was a coach, I was a dental hygienist for 20 years working in. I only had two jobs my entire career and I worked in one office for 15 years. And I was young, you know, and didn't have kids. I was not married. And I remember not understanding why the women with children were allowed to come in late or, you know, miss work at the last minute because their kid was sick.

00:31:39:09 - 00:32:00:17
Suzanne Taylor-King
I remember not being very sympathetic to that at all. Right. I was very like, how could you miss work? Because your kid was sick? Like, I had no tolerance at all for that because it usually ended up being me who had to pick.

00:32:00:17 - 00:32:00:29
Kon Apostolopoulos

Up the.

00:32:00:29 - 00:32:47:20
Suzanne Taylor-King
Slack on those days. And I remember learning very quickly when my son came along what that was all about, you know, And it's something you cannot experience until you experience it for yourself. You really can't. And I think being part of a team and having whether it's meetings. But you said the the thing about walking down the hallway, like to the watercooler and those little touches of personal interaction, I had that all the time in that career, not only with my patients but with my coworkers.

00:32:47:22 - 00:33:02:08
Suzanne Taylor-King
I was missing that when I came into the online space, and I think that's why I created my first community of people and sort of bringing people together was for that very.

00:33:02:11 - 00:33:03:05
Kon Apostolopoulos

You're missing it.

00:33:03:07 - 00:33:36:01
Suzanne Taylor-King
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think we forget how important that actually is today to have those not only connections, but those relationships and one on one engagement that can really foster it can multiply past. You know, look what we're doing today. You and I are having a conversation. It's going out to my followers. It will go out to your followers.

00:33:36:01 - 00:33:53:03
Suzanne Taylor-King
Maybe some of your people are listening. Some of my people are listening. And it's building relationship at scale. But literally, it's just you and I here together. We think it's really powerful when you think about it that way.

00:33:53:05 - 00:34:16:11
Kon Apostolopoulos

It is because people need to hear that message. And again, it's those interactions that we need to cultivate because those are the things again, think about it, the connection, the power of connection, the leveraging that as a driver to really build those relationships. I mean, one of the things that we're finding right now, and it's funny because I write about all these things in the book because all of these things are so relevant and tied together.

00:34:16:14 - 00:34:35:25
Kon Apostolopoulos

When you have a workforce that's working in this hybrid environment. It's not just the people that in the office, for example, that are jealous, if you will, of the people that have the luxury of working at home or privileged or have that opportunity. There are people that are working at home that look at and say, okay, I'm far removed from the seats of power.

00:34:35:28 - 00:34:56:03
Kon Apostolopoulos

My peers are getting all of these plum assignments and they're getting of these opportunities that I'm not getting because I'm not there. So there are benefits and drawbacks. I mean, all of these things weigh into your choices and your decisions, but you have choices to make and you can decide what's the right environment for you and how to best support that.

00:34:56:05 - 00:35:13:07
Kon Apostolopoulos

So you look at that and say, okay, I need to make the environment so my people can feel connected. I need to do that as a leader. And some of my clients are finding it that, you know what, Hey, we're still going to offer that opportunity for you to do some of the work that makes sense for you to do remotely.

00:35:13:09 - 00:35:34:11
Kon Apostolopoulos

But we still want to create and build that collaboration, that teamwork, that culture that we want to cultivate by bringing you in in person. But it doesn't make sense to bring them in in person if all they're going to do is work isolated. Focus, focus, focus again. Smart leadership will go a long way. You cannot afford to be a lazy leader and use the old playbook.

00:35:34:12 - 00:35:39:03
Kon Apostolopoulos

It's not just going to go on autopilot. You got to consciously lead people.

00:35:39:06 - 00:35:42:10
Suzanne Taylor-King
Yeah, it really does start at the top down, doesn't it?

00:35:42:12 - 00:35:43:00
Kon Apostolopoulos

Yeah.

00:35:43:03 - 00:36:14:04
Suzanne Taylor-King
It does. Well, thank you so much for your insights today. I truly appreciate where you've gone in your career. Your your three books. All have been such a progression of, just that that message of being a conscious leader and, you know, making change not only within your organization, even with your organization of one person, it can truly make a difference.

00:36:14:06 - 00:36:17:22
Suzanne Taylor-King
How can our listeners today get in touch with you.

00:36:17:24 - 00:36:41:12
Kon Apostolopoulos

Was a couple of different ways. Obviously, for those that like LinkedIn are on LinkedIn, come find me. I'm under Coach Kaan with a K Teo and Coach Khan. That's where they can find me there. Otherwise there's ample information on my website, fresh biz, busy solutions dot com. They can find information there and go pick up the book. The Engagement Blueprint Building a Culture of Commitment and Performance.

00:36:41:12 - 00:36:53:10
Kon Apostolopoulos

It's out now. It's out on Kindle and on print versions, both paperback and hardback and hopefully like we talked about, maybe in the next few months will be able to get an audio book out.

00:36:53:12 - 00:36:59:03
Suzanne Taylor-King
Well, you have such a fabulous voice. I hope you're going to read the audiobook yourself.

00:36:59:10 - 00:37:00:25
Kon Apostolopoulos

I intend to, because I know.

00:37:00:27 - 00:37:01:22
Suzanne Taylor-King
I'll be great.

00:37:01:24 - 00:37:03:06
Kon Apostolopoulos

I feel the message.

00:37:03:09 - 00:37:29:10
Suzanne Taylor-King
Yes, yes, yes. And I will make sure that all of your links are in the comments of today's video. And please thank you for, you know, just being who you are. I enjoy your content and enjoy our social media relationship, even though we've never met in person. I feel deeply connected to you and your message, and I appreciate that every day.

00:37:29:12 - 00:37:33:20
Kon Apostolopoulos

Likewise. And thank you so much. And thank you to our amazing audience for paying attention today.

00:37:33:22 - 00:37:42:02
Suzanne Taylor-King
Absolutely. Thank you so much, everyone, for Joining me here on another episode of Unlock Your Way with STK. Have a great day.